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Old 05-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #46
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This is an interesting discussion.

I would define lust as a consuming desire to have something that you shouldn't have, to the point where you lose self-control and your strong desire causes you to do something wrong. "Thou shalt not covet" comes to mind; you should not get so wrapped up in wanting something that isn't yours because it ultimately ends in you or someone else getting hurt.

Being attracted to a person is not necessarily lust; it's natural to think that other people are attractive in a sexual way. It's what you do with those feelings that can make it a sin.

Lust can lead to a lot of worse things like theft, rape, murder, unplanned pregnancy, divorce, tyranny, etc. It doesn't always have to do with sex. Lust is like a root condition that leads to a wide assortment of problems, and that's what makes it a sin. IMO.

What am I doing in FYM again??!
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:38 PM   #47
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I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. I don' think there's anything wrong with thinking about kissing someone. What I'm saying is that I'm not going to fantasize about kissiing someone, because there's no need. If I kiss someone I do; if not, what good does pretending I'm kissing someone do?
There are many times in your life where you just can't help it, and that's the entire point. You don't actively go, "Oh, let me paint a detailed picture in my head of me kissing this lovely looking lady." You see a nice gal strolling by and the thought just pops in your head. You didn't mean it, it's just human nature.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:00 PM   #48
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80sU2,

Perhaps if I take all of what might be misconstrued as a personal attack out of my main point, you might see what I'm really trying to say.

If a person is pressured to feel shame for having sexual thoughts, regardless of how long or little they dwell on them, because the church tells them it's wrong, then that is unequivocally unfair, repressive, and unhealthy. To take it even further, if there is any external pressure that does the same, it's equally unfair, repressive, and unhealthy. I just feel religion is more often than not, responsible for those pressures. That's it. If you take offense because I'm speaking bad of religion, that's one thing, but this was never a personal attack on you as a person because you're right, I have no idea who you are. Is that a fair statement?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:09 PM   #49
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There are many times in your life where you just can't help it, and that's the entire point. You don't actively go, "Oh, let me paint a detailed picture in my head of me kissing this lovely looking lady." You see a nice gal strolling by and the thought just pops in your head. You didn't mean it, it's just human nature.
Right, and those times are not sins. But I believe that what crosses into sin is when I dwell on the thought and make it mine, turning it into lust and fantasy.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:16 PM   #50
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80sU2,

Perhaps if I take all of what might be misconstrued as a personal attack out of my main point, you might see what I'm really trying to say.

If a person is pressured to feel shame for having sexual thoughts, regardless of how long or little they dwell on them, because the church tells them it's wrong, then that is unequivocally unfair, repressive, and unhealthy. To take it even further, if there is any external pressure that does the same, it's equally unfair, repressive, and unhealthy. I just feel religion is more often than not, responsible for those pressures. That's it. If you take offense because I'm speaking bad of religion, that's one thing, but this was never a personal attack on you as a person because you're right, I have no idea who you are. Is that a fair statement?
Written that way, I would not have agreed with you, but I wouldn't have taken it personally.

There are many Christian leaders who will try to make people feel shame for "having sexual thoughts", but I was not taught that way, and I do not live that way.

I draw a clear distinction between sexual thoughts that pop into my head and the thoughts that I dwell on and turn into lust or fantasizing. As Phil said, sexual thoughts sometimes just pop into the mind; they aren't invited. But whether to dwell on those thoughts and turn them into lust and fantasy is my own choice.

And if I sin in any way, anger, envy, whatever, I confess it to God and God alone (unless I've hurt someone else, in which case I confess to them as well), and I know I am forgiven, because I was forgiven at the cross. No lasting feelings of guilt.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:18 PM   #51
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Exactly right. Nice to hear from you 80s. I've been MIA myself for almost a year.
HI Indy, nice to see you.

I've been able to stay out of political arguments, but religious discussion can always reel me in.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:20 PM   #52
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If you had written it that way, I would not have agreed with you, but I wouldn't have taken it personally.
Fair.

My "you're"s and "you"s were truly meant in the general sense.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:23 PM   #53
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Fair.

My "you're"s and "you"s were truly meant in the general sense.
Thanks, I accept that.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:25 PM   #54
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:30 PM   #55
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Not trying to sound mushy, but I'm glad we worked this out. I really don't like being upset or having people upset at me over things like this. On big issues, I don't mind if people are upset with me, but not on little things.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:34 PM   #56
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nah, I agree, man. I always get worked up and then feel like an ass afterward. It's one thing to argue about an idea, but I'd hate to make someone feel like I'm singling them out. That's not my style. Glad we worked it out too
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:35 AM   #57
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Right, and those times are not sins. But I believe that what crosses into sin is when I dwell on the thought and make it mine, turning it into lust and fantasy.
Ok, now I'm beginning to understand. I can understand this definition. I may not believe it 100% but this definition makes a lot more sense.

You and I are not going to agree 100%, but we actually have some common ground on this subject.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:37 AM   #58
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I'm not religious but lust is certainly not sinful. I don't if you're implying that "dwelling" on lustful is cheating, but it's not. Everyone lusts.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:40 AM   #59
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I'm not religious but lust is certainly not sinful.
But do you even believe in sin?
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:42 AM   #60
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Does it only exist in a religious context? If so, then no. Otherwise I'd say yes.
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