Is Feminism Still Relevant?

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jeevey said:
I'm pretty sure this is why women like gay porn and read slash. Every possibility is absolutely reciprocal. There's no default power dynamic- they have to be decided on.
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this i agree with. i find the power imbalance of hetero porn uncomfortable at times, as well as some depictions of hetero intercourse in media.
 
Pearl said:
Not to disrupt the debate here, but I just wanted to post this before it becomes old news:

The Futile Quest To End Rape Jokes On The Internet Continues - Forbes

Seriously, I just don't understand such vile hate some men guys have towards women. What is it about us that makes these shits hate us so much?
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There are funny rape jokes. There are funny cancer jokes. There are funny priest jokes. There are funny blonde jokes. There are funny atheist jokes. There are funny Christian jokes. There are funny old people jokes.
None of these groups are special or immune to having jokes made about them. It doesn't mean all jokes about these things are funny; there has to be a joke. It also doesn't mean anyone has to be hated to have a joke made about them.

The mere act of trying to get any kind of joke censored is an act of superiority.
 
Jive Turkey said:
There are funny rape jokes. There are funny cancer jokes. There are funny priest jokes. There are funny blonde jokes. There are funny atheist jokes. There are funny Christian jokes. There are funny old people jokes.
None of these groups are special or immune to having jokes made about them. It doesn't mean all jokes about these things are funny; there has to be a joke. It also doesn't mean anyone has to be hated to have a joke made about them.

The mere act of trying to get any kind of joke censored is an act of superiority.
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I have to strongly disagree, Jive. I'm OK with a meme joking that women belong in the kitchen, but memes that show a woman with a black eye and the caption says she should've stayed in the kitchen, are not funny at all. Those are hateful and frightening to me, and plenty of other women. And I fail to see how rape can be humorous when "done correctly".
 
Pearl said:
I have to strongly disagree, Jive. I'm OK with a meme joking that women belong in the kitchen, but memes that show a woman with a black eye and the caption says she should've stayed in the kitchen, are not funny at all. Those are hateful and frightening to me, and plenty of other women. And I fail to see how rape can be humorous when "done correctly".
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You have every right to not think they're funny. But your offense isn't special or more important than say, someone offended by a dead baby joke. It's not the fact that some people don't think they're funny that I have a problem with; it's the idea that, because those people don't think they're funny, they need to be censored. But rest assured, the vast majority of people making those jokes don't hate you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people making those jokes also suck at making jokes :(

I'm getting some serious deja vu. We definitely all talked about this not too long ago. But hey, when has that ever stopped us before? ;)
 
Pearl said:
I have to strongly disagree, Jive. I'm OK with a meme joking that women belong in the kitchen, but memes that show a woman with a black eye and the caption says she should've stayed in the kitchen, are not funny at all. Those are hateful and frightening to me, and plenty of other women. And I fail to see how rape can be humorous when "done correctly".
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Yeah. I've laughed at rape jokes before but the Facebook memes you're talking about go way over the line.
 
cobl04 said:
Yeah. I've laughed at rape jokes before but the Facebook memes you're talking about go way over the line.
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Agreed. If there was, say, a photo of a black man gagged, bound and tied to the back of a truck with a caption like "Time to go for a walk," that wouldn't be a race joke, that would be hate speech. And those FB memes that are being targeted are not at all different.
 
Jive Turkey said:
You have every right to not think they're funny. But your offense isn't special or more important than say, someone offended by a dead baby joke. It's not the fact that some people don't think they're funny that I have a problem with; it's the idea that, because those people don't think they're funny, they need to be censored. But rest assured, the vast majority of people making those jokes don't hate you. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people making those jokes also suck at making jokes :(

I'm getting some serious deja vu. We definitely all talked about this not too long ago. But hey, when has that ever stopped us before? ;)
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I'm going to echo what Jeevey said. If there were memes of a black person beaten up and the caption read how he should've given up his seat, that cannot be considered humorous at all. It is offensive, hateful and dangerous. I don't think violent memes targeting blacks, gays, or Jews will last long on Facebook. Also, any guy who says he finds violent memes targeting women funny, but says he doesn't support misogyny, is contradicting himself big time. I'm not saying any of the guys here in FYM are like that (I hope not!), but there are guys out there who contradict themselves like that.
 
Pearl said:
I have to strongly disagree, Jive. I'm OK with a meme joking that women belong in the kitchen, but memes that show a woman with a black eye and the caption says she should've stayed in the kitchen, are not funny at all. Those are hateful and frightening to me, and plenty of other women. And I fail to see how rape can be humorous when "done correctly".
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should Nirvana not have recorded "Rape Me"?
 
Well, for one, Rape Me is making a request. If an act is desired, it's not rape (By definition rape requires force or compulsion.) For one more, it's not suggesting that anyone deserves or needs or ought to be raped. And for another it's not making a joke or asking anyone to take rape lightly. So it's not really the same.

A better comparison would be, should we make a photo of a Jew with a star on his chest and a caption that says "Target Practice". That's the same, because it suggests that someone deserves violence by the simple fact of what they are. To which the answer would pretty obviously be no.
 
You guys are cherry picking extreme examples. But you want all jokes about rape to be banned, correct? Would it not be more fair to cite a few more tame examples? Or an example written by someone with a sense of humour? What are your thoughts on the David cross video?
 
I watched it all and it was pretty boring, lowbrow.
But since he was performing for a paying audience, and they chose to be there, any talk of banning it is just stupid.
 
Jive Turkey said:
You guys are cherry picking extreme examples. But you want all jokes about rape to be banned, correct? Would it not be more fair to cite a few more tame examples? Or an example written by someone with a sense of humour? What are your thoughts on the David cross video?
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The article that Pearl posted was about a specific campaign about particular memes which are in fact very extreme. So those are the ones we are talking about.

But for myself, it's true I'd like to live in a world where rape is not considered funny. Because it never is funny to people who experience it, male or female.

It's not that we need to ban rape jokes, it's that we need to change our cultural understanding of what's acceptable. Sometime in the last 100 years we in America made a decision that hanging black men in public is not a good reason to have a picnic. We don't tell lynch jokes anymore. Sometime in the last 25, we came to a rough consensus that getting ogled by another man is not a good reason to kill him, and that a joke about doing so is not funny. I'd like to see the same thing for sexualized violence. Being a woman is not a good reason to rape her, or joke about it.

And part of getting there is naming the attitude as problematic. We openly shame people who want to harm black people, Jews or gays. We name them as deviant, backwards. We call their attitude a serious social problem, not a bad sense of humor. And by and large people respond to that.
 
OK, about that video Jive posted - that was more of a light-hearted view of the reality of date rape. It didn't encourage rape through comedy nor did it attack any rape victims. What David Tosh did a while back was basically threaten the women who heckled him.

There's a difference between making a simple joke on hard the world can be with rape being so common. But to treat it as no big deal or the victim deserved it is not funny at all.

Take this Dave Chappelle rape joke:

Dave Chappelle - Man Rape - YouTube

He was making a statement on how society treats male rape victims. Now if he were to make harsh comments in the form of a joke, then its hurtful.
 
cobl04 said:
What about using it in a context like "man my team got absolutely raped last night!"
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There should be nothing wrong with this. Had you said "man my team got absolutely murdered last night!", nobody would bat an eye
 
cobl04 said:
What about using it in a context like "man my team got absolutely raped last night!"
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For me the guiding question would be, if a survivor was sitting there, would they think it was acceptable or funny? If not, than the comment is probably inherently unkind.

I've done this before. I went into a restaurant next to a nail salon. You could smell the salon chemicals in with all the food smells, and I said out loud to my dad and his wife, "Jeez, it smells like cancer in here." Then the uncomfortable silence reminded me that her first husband died of brain cancer. She knew what cancer smells like, and I didn't, and I had just reminded her of the shittiest experience of her life in a totally trivializing way.

Same thing with gay, black, Jew or whatever jokes. The only good ones are the ones that they themselves can enjoy. And for me it doesn't matter if there is in fact a gay, black, Jew, woman, cancer survivor or whatever sitting there- the ethical guideline holds.
 
jeevey said:
For me the guiding question would be, if a survivor was sitting there, would they think it was acceptable or funny? If not, than the comment is probably inherently unkind.

I've done this before. I went into a restaurant next to a nail salon. You could smell the salon chemicals in with all the food smells, and I said out loud to my dad and his wife, "Jeez, it smells like cancer in here." Then the uncomfortable silence reminded me that her first husband died of brain cancer. She knew what cancer smells like, and I didn't, and I had just reminded her of the shittiest experience of her life in a totally trivializing way.

Same thing with gay, black, jew or whatever jokes. The only good ones are the ones that they themselves can laugh at. Otherwise, they are hurtful.
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Better not make any jokes then!
 
Because if we eliminated all jokes that anyone found offensive, we wouldn't be left with much.

Is "It smells like cancer in here" even a joke?? The issue here might be a lack of a sense of humour
 
What was that Mel Brooks quote, 'comedy is when you fall down a manhole, tragedy is when I stub my toe'.

Of course comedy doesn't actually have to be at someone else's expense, but the wellsprings of humour are often, let us be frank, pain and misery. I'm minded to think that heaven (well the hollywood version) might be an inherently humourless place.
 
There's tasteful jokes and there are tasteless jokes. Some people prefer tasteless and could careless what anyone thinks, and they love to shock for the sake of shock. That is the problem.
 
Pearl said:
There's tasteful jokes and there are tasteless jokes. Some people prefer tasteless and could careless what anyone thinks, and they love to shock for the sake of shock. That is the problem.
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No, the problem is the other people thinking their offense means anything to anyone but themselves. You can be offended. By why should you assume anyone would care or that something must be done about it? The proper response to "That offended me" is "ok"
 
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