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Old 11-03-2013, 11:22 AM   #631
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Yeah I reckon that's what she meant too, but it sounds just odd. Though I would agree that I really don't get the obsession these days with all the famous women getting naked, sex videos etc. I couldn't be further away from being a Christian, yet I do think that sexuality and especially your body is a private thing. No need to flaunt it to the world...
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #632
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I'm just kind of bored with the Mileys and the Rihannas trying to outdo one another.

Have you seen Rihanna's "Pour it Up" video? I mean, if you thought that she had no class before, this one takes it to a new level.

It's not about feminism, it's really about art and taste and class and these girls don't have any of it.

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #633
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Yeah I reckon that's what she meant too, but it sounds just odd. Though I would agree that I really don't get the obsession these days with all the famous women getting naked, sex videos etc. I couldn't be further away from being a Christian, yet I do think that sexuality and especially your body is a private thing. No need to flaunt it to the world...
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I'm just kind of bored with the Mileys and the Rihannas trying to outdo one another.

Have you seen Rihanna's "Pour it Up" video? I mean, if you thought that she had no class before, this one takes it to a new level.

It's not about feminism, it's really about art and taste and class and these girls don't have any of it.
I agree that taste is really the issue here. But I've noticed with the arguments regarding Miley is that some women say if you complain about her, or any woman, being tasteless or disrespecting herself, you are slut-shaming and telling her what to do with her body. I completely disagree with that sentiment because it sounds like some people think there should no limits on what a woman does with her sexuality, and any criticism or observation is harmful towards women. For example, if I were to say women shouldn't walk around in the summer with their butt cheeks hanging out of their ultra short shorts because its trashy, does that mean I'm hurting the women's movement? Of course not. It is tacky to show that much, and I'm not a prude either. The same goes if I were to say that it really isn't a good idea to have nothing but one night stands or go into porn. Yes, I know some people go through that stage in their lives and not all porn stars are damaged. But if I were to say those choices aren't the wisest or healthiest, I fail to see how I'm tapping into patriarchal beliefs and trying to control women's bodies. I'm doing neither because I'm noting that such decisions can be quite harmful for emotional, physical, and mental reasons.

Also, the problem with Miley, Rihanna and many women in the music industry is that they treat sex like it is something gross and nasty, at least to me. Why can't they celebrate sexuality in all it's beauty? Why do they have to get so sleazy about it? I know, its about money and shock. But still...
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:59 AM   #634
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Yeah, you're not slut-shaming them... as it's not un-slutty to have some public decency for feck's sake.

You may be on to something there Pearl, that they treat it like something dirty. Because that's what sells, and if it's the more decent, romantic sex idea it's suddenly not interesting anymore. Not all about money and shock, but I do think that's also a part of the male dominated world. There's a reason why there's now special porn for women, that's softer and more on the romance side, and male directed porn is usually the complete oposite... different tastes.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:29 AM   #635
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I have to add here that words like decency, taste and sleaziness are also constructs of the same world of gender and sex ideas that we all live in. They are a product of our cultural history, not essential timeless qualities. While I'm not saying that I love Miley and Rhianna, I do think the idea that public sex or sexuality is inherently dirty or demeaning needs to be examined like everything else. I have a feeling the problem is less about the publicness of the sexuality and more about the commodification, the linking of the performance of sexuality with money.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:03 AM   #636
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Yeah, you're not slut-shaming them... as it's not un-slutty to have some public decency for feck's sake.

You may be on to something there Pearl, that they treat it like something dirty. Because that's what sells, and if it's the more decent, romantic sex idea it's suddenly not interesting anymore. Not all about money and shock, but I do think that's also a part of the male dominated world. There's a reason why there's now special porn for women, that's softer and more on the romance side, and male directed porn is usually the complete oposite... different tastes.
While there are some women who like raunchiness as much as men, I do agree that the more shocking sexuality is portrayed the better, because that means more money. After all, look at fashion ads. If there was one ad that was all sensual while another was raunchy (remember that Gucci ad where the model had her pubes shaved to form a "G"?), which one would generate the most attention and therefore the most sales?

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I have to add here that words like decency, taste and sleaziness are also constructs of the same world of gender and sex ideas that we all live in. They are a product of our cultural history, not essential timeless qualities. While I'm not saying that I love Miley and Rhianna, I do think the idea that public sex or sexuality is inherently dirty or demeaning needs to be examined like everything else. I have a feeling the problem is less about the publicness of the sexuality and more about the commodification, the linking of the performance of sexuality with money.
Everyone had their own standards on what is demeaning or not, but I'm sure many could agree that what the music, film and other creative industries produce is too raunchy for the average person's tastes. I have yet to find someone who thinks Miley's VMA performance was awesome, in terms of artistic quality and taste.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #637
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It's kinda funnny, in a fucked up way, how this worked out. Everyone agrees how shite that performance was, and how it was so low in all those terms you mentioned. Yet when we think of what the purpose of the whole performance was, it hit the nail right on the head. EVERYBODY talked about that performance for weeks after it happened, it had gigantic press coverage, attention everywhere. So in that case, it would seem like a brilliant move. Sadly I would reckon this means it won't be the last thing we see of these kind of performances. As it's top busine$$.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:27 PM   #638
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It's kinda funnny, in a fucked up way, how this worked out. Everyone agrees how shite that performance was, and how it was so low in all those terms you mentioned. Yet when we think of what the purpose of the whole performance was, it hit the nail right on the head. EVERYBODY talked about that performance for weeks after it happened, it had gigantic press coverage, attention everywhere. So in that case, it would seem like a brilliant move. Sadly I would reckon this means it won't be the last thing we see of these kind of performances. As it's top busine$$.
Oh jeez, I know! Especially this past Halloween. I saw a lot of Miley Cyrus costumes, plus Robin Thicke costumes and the two people involved would mimic their performance. Its totally sick that Miley got what she wanted - and here in this thread, we're giving that little brat what she wanted

Yeah, someone would try to outdo Miley someday. If I were to attend the VMAs as a performer, I would dress as a nun or in a burqa. Whenever asks me why I am dressed that way, I'd say, "I want to shock people and be controversial". Too bad I'll be laughed at and forgotten in a few days.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #639
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Yup, it's mindboggling really. On one side we're all disgusted and outraged.... yet on the other side there's people revering these actions.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:13 AM   #640
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New Zealand teen sex ring 'Roast Busters' name and shame victims

Throw these dickbags off a cliff
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:24 AM   #641
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Give them the guillotine.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:17 AM   #642
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How can teens be so fucked up in the head already when they're that young?

I really don't see why people value ethics so much when you've dickheads like this around. IMO all rapists can go to hell straight away. Or castrate them, that would work as well.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:05 AM   #643
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Gosh, and this is New Zealand. Not Iran or Saudi Arabia. Male entitlement/misogyny/slut shaming/rape culture/whatever you want to call it has no boundaries.

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The question we should be consumed with answering is not how we can educate young girls to be more proactive about avoiding rape, but how we can educate young boys to understand that they are not entitled to the bodies of other people just because they demand them, nor are they entitled to humiliate those same people in order to peacock for their mates. These girls weren’t raped because they drank too much and put themselves in the path of predators; they were raped because masculine entitlement still runs so deep that a group of teenage boys thought it would be a funny thing to do, while high fiving each other over their intoxicated victim’s body.

Rape is an action that’s directly perpetrated, increasingly so as part of a group bonding exercise. But rape culture positions rape as an arbitrary accident girls stumble into when they’ve failed to take the proper precautions against it. Shifting the onus on girls to protect themselves enables perpetrators to continue unabated, content in the knowledge that there will never be any real consequences for their actions. Instead, we are asked to consider their good childhoods and their promising futures - as if choosing to participate in the ritualised group humiliation and sexual violation of another human being is simply a hiccup in the journey to becoming a decent person.

Unfortunately, it is easier to accept that the women you love might are potential victims who need to be protected than it is to understand the men you love might be potential predators who need to be stopped.
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And this is rape culture too. The expectation that ‘consent’, as flimsily secured as it might be, is an excuse for men to behave with impunity; to exercise all the most disgusting, degrading attitudes that they might hold towards women either for their own satisfaction or for approval of friends looking on. That a ‘yes’, however shakily it might be offered or assumed, is a contract signed by a woman that surrenders her right not just to dignity and respect, but to complaint when it turns out she was there as a prop not a participant.

This is the environment in which rape culture flourishes.

It is how ‘good’ boys and men go on to commit sexual crimes against the women they’ve been trained not to view as equal human beings, and to then be excused for them with little more than a slap on the wrist and an entreaty to be smarter next time. It is how a group of non-descript lads in Auckland can form a rape club called the ‘Roast Busters’ and brag about it online, believing implicitly in their right to do so as both lords and masters of their own domain.

And it is why these groups will continue to flourish like a poisonous fungus across a society that chooses not to see what’s really going on.
I know this sort of attitude has been around since the beginning of time, but I feel like it is more prevalent. I know its because women are speaking out against rape culture more, but holy shit. What's wrong with some guys and men? Seriously, what wrong with them? (note: that's a rhetorical question)
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:57 AM   #644
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Sadly it's not all guys either. I know of a case where there were women involved too. I truly cannot understand why on earth they would do that, if they even have the faintest idea how you can completely ruin someone's life and that of those who love them with their actions.

There's far too many people around that are completely fucking looney in their heads. And the innocent ones suffer from this. How is that more ethical than sentencing these assholes to death so they won't make more victims?
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:10 AM   #645
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Sadly it's not all guys either. I know of a case where there were women involved too. I truly cannot understand why on earth they would do that, if they even have the faintest idea how you can completely ruin someone's life and that of those who love them with their actions.
That is very true. There's a lot of women who hate women, or women who think they are inferior to men, either consciously or subconsciously. Sigh!
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