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Old 06-03-2013, 02:22 PM   #331
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I don't think a wide net is being casted here. There are real gender issues involving rape, and there's no way to avoid that.
Exactly. Trying to deny it is just playing needless semantic games. Nearly 20% of women have been sexually assaulted. Compare that to 3% for men. It is certainly a gendered issue.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:32 PM   #332
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Exactly. Trying to deny it is just playing needless semantic games. Nearly 20% of women have been sexually assaulted. Compare that to 3% for men. It is certainly a gendered issue.
My only point is that it's not true to all rape. Rape is about power, and normally the rapist will target the sex that they are attracted to, but is really due to gender issues or is it something much deeper than that?
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #333
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I think we cheapen the severity of rape by using the word "culture", I understand the point they are trying to make, but to me none of those websites truly meet the dictionary definition of culture.



What about men who are raped? Sexism issue? Are the men not seeing their victims as equals due to their sex?

I honestly find it kind of disturbing that some guys seem to think all rape is the same, and sexism is never an issue. Yes, men do get raped but how in comparison, women are raped the most in the world. I see the point in how rape is equally damaging for both sexes, but to take away the misogynist part is kind of ignoring womens' experiences and fear over being raped. For centuries, men have used their superior physical strength to overpower a woman. Rape is the ultimate way to overpower and violate someone. Usually guys see men as their fellow human beings while women are another kind, or even inferior. You know, "bros before 'hos"?
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:55 PM   #334
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Exactly. Trying to deny it is just playing needless semantic games. Nearly 20% of women have been sexually assaulted. Compare that to 3% for men. It is certainly a gendered issue.
Thank you, Iron Yuppie. To say otherwise, frankly, is to almost turn a blind eye to all the misogynistic fears women go through each day.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #335
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I honestly find it kind of disturbing that some guys seem to think all rape is the same, and sexism is never an issue. Yes, men do get raped but how in comparison, women are raped the most in the world. I see the point in how rape is equally damaging for both sexes, but to take away the misogynist part is kind of ignoring womens' experiences and fear over being raped. For centuries, men have used their superior physical strength to overpower a woman. Rape is the ultimate way to overpower and violate someone. Usually guys see men as their fellow human beings while women are another kind, or even inferior. You know, "bros before 'hos"?
Where did I say "all rape is the same"? In fact I'm the one trying to get Jeevey to understand that it can't all be placed under the same umbrella.

I think there's difference(though very thin line) between misogyny and sexism, I see misogyny being more on the individual side and sexism being institutional or society. Also one is defined as hatred and the other is defined as discrimination or not seeing as equal. So I would agree that almost all male on female rape would be about misogyny.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:39 PM   #336
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Where did I say "all rape is the same"? In fact I'm the one trying to get Jeevey to understand that it can't all be placed under the same umbrella.

I think there's difference(though very thin line) between misogyny and sexism, I see misogyny being more on the individual side and sexism being institutional or society. Also one is defined as hatred and the other is defined as discrimination or not seeing as equal. So I would agree that almost all male on female rape would be about misogyny.
No, you didn't say that, but I got the impression that was what you were thinking. I've seen and heard men try to downplay violence against women by pointing out that men suffer abuse too. For example, with that violence against women bill in Congress, some men think it is unfair that the law applies to women and not to men. Yes, there are men abused by their female partners, but it pales in comparison to male on female abuse - and the results are more damaging.

I am not trying to change the subject or steer off course. I'm just pointing out what I've seen so much of and I was wondering if the same was happening here.

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My only point is that it's not true to all rape. Rape is about power, and normally the rapist will target the sex that they are attracted to, but is really due to gender issues or is it something much deeper than that?
I'm a little baffled by this. How can rape not be about gender issues - social or individual? If rape is about power and some men love to humiliate and hurt women, how can rape not be about gender issues?
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:08 PM   #337
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No, you didn't say that, but I got the impression that was what you were thinking.
Not at all. Please take context into consideration, I was responding to the context of your statements that rape is about sexism, rape is about gender issues. I was just pointing out one example where it wasn't, so that we get away from these blanket overreaching statements.


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I'm a little baffled by this. How can rape not be about gender issues - social or individual? If rape is about power and some men love to humiliate and hurt women, how can rape not be about gender issues?
If a man shoots a man, he's a murderer. If he then shoots a woman would it automatically be about gender issues?
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #338
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If a man shoots a man, he's a murderer. If he then shoots a woman would it automatically be about gender issues?
Not always. But if he's calling her a slut and a whore, if he's punishing her for nagging him or for sleeping with someone else (supposed or real) or for leaving him or taking the kids, then I think probably.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #339
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if he's punishing her for nagging him or for sleeping with someone else (supposed or real) or for leaving him or taking the kids, then I think probably.
What? Not one of those things have anything to do with gender.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:44 PM   #340
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What? Not one of those things have anything to do with gender.
It can if the guy has misogynist views. He may think a woman has no right to question a man or shouldn't speak to any man besides him.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:45 PM   #341
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Not at all. Please take context into consideration, I was responding to the context of your statements that rape is about sexism, rape is about gender issues. I was just pointing out one example where it wasn't, so that we get away from these blanket overreaching statements.



If a man shoots a man, he's a murderer. If he then shoots a woman would it automatically be about gender issues?
So when do we determine an act of violence is about misogyny or a random act from human to another?
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:13 PM   #342
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It can if the guy has misogynist views. He may think a woman has no right to question a man or shouldn't speak to any man besides him.
But that's not what I asked. The two of you are solidifying my fear which is; violence against a man is a violent crime, and violence against a woman is a violent crime caused by sexism.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #343
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So when do we determine an act of violence is about misogyny or a random act from human to another?
I don't know if I would ever label a violent act as a random act. When? When we look at the particular cases and determine the cause.

There have been thousands of studies on rape and the rapists, but the truth is is that there are not a lot of answers as to the reasons. It used to be that some researchers categorized rapists into two categories; criminal and psychotic, but now there's other research that says multiple categories need to be developed. The criminal were usually just violent aggressive men, their violence often aimed towards men and women. The psychotic usually had some inadequacies, childhood trauma, or some other deep rooted issues. Some of these types on both sides have real issues with the female sex some on the psychotic side may have "mommy issues", others it's just their form of aggression and it has very little to do with the female sex. Now these rapists usually plan their attacks and probably don't know their victims. When we talk about date rape, I would say most of those attacks are probably based on gender issues and misogyny.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:49 PM   #344
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Not all violence against women is due to misogyny, but I'd imagine a fairly high proportion of it is though throughout the world, via domestic violence and rape. Men I think I am right in saying are more likely to experience violence full stop but generally that is male on male, but in a way it all stems from the same attitudes a lot of men have in regards to how we manage relationships with women and other men, we've not really left behind earlier forms of masculinity as we'd like to think, such as gang related murders and all that jazz.

Rape culture when I first heard it used a couple of years ago I found it a very odd term, still do but all it really signifies is basically that there are lot of things that men (not all obviously) still find acceptable or are acceptable for men to do and not women, but when you examine them you realise how odd it is that they are accepted. It is a harsh term that I do find too catch-all for some relatively innocuous things but it has made me think more broadly about male privilege and how the feminism debate is often still characterised as something we should be done with.

For a lighter side of feminism I advise checking out the Hawkeye Initiative portraying male superheroes in the way the female ones often are, makes you realise how ridiculous some of the poses are.

Oh there was also a good wee chat with Patrick Stewart recently on domestic violence that I think is worth watching, essentially because it is quite nice.

Patrick Stewart Gives Passionate Response to Question At Comicpalooza 2013 - YouTube
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #345
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What? Not one of those things have anything to do with gender.
They all have to do with the belief that men control the behavior, and in particular the bodies and sexuality of women. Those are in contrast to any of the things a man might ordinarily kill a man for- because she stiffed him on a drug deal, slept with his mother, got into a bar fight with him or cut him off in traffic, for example. Those ones really have nothing to do with gender.
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