Is anyone here not religious and not athiest? As in, just not pushy about religion? - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #46
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I'm a non-practicing catholic, son of a protestant catholic marriage, who's engaged to a non-practicing new, and works at a lutheran school... so i'm all fucked up.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:17 PM   #47
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Contently agnostic and equally perturbed by the people that have decided a total UNKNOWN can be known.

Absolutely not religious. That doesn't make me a believer either. Just means I know that God, if it exists, is beyond any man-made notion. Religion is a societal control, nothing more.

Nearly all of the rants that Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, etc. make are against religion. When most people (not all, but most) arrive at atheism, they do so because of religion. Not - let's just say for sake of argument - the God of Deists.

And that is the only point I really wanted to make. God and religion are not the same thing. They definitely can be mutually exclusive.

Just like Evolution and God surely can co-exist. If you don't believe this is possible, it is only because of the science fiction you believe to be gospel truth. And if you think God isn't even possible, you (most likely) only arrived there from dismissing religion.

Ask any atheist to make an argument against God that doesn't include something lifted from (what we should all know to be) man-made religion. It's a lot more of a simple argument/thought experiment at that point. It doesn't quite have that stench of anti-theist proselytizing dogma to it. I appreciate that simple sort of POV more than the other.

Of course, this doesn't prove anything other than atheists (often) aren't quite as soundly skeptical as they want to believe. In other words, it is more soundly skeptical (IMO) to have a 5th grader's simple POV (I haven't ever seen God, so God doesn't exist) than to write a book as a screed against religious fiction.

God, IMO, would be something well beyond our comprehension.
And our purpose in this life would be as well. People, atheist or believer, tend to not like the uncertainty involved with that.

And the further away people are from this general understanding...that we couldn't know...and that we should respect each other and our own beliefs...then the better chance they would annoy me.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:43 PM   #48
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Well yes, and I suppose if I went further on my 'atheist' belief, I'd say it's really some blend of atheism/anti-theism and agnosticism. I'm quite happy to have a big question mark there the second before the big bang, happy to have one there the second after I die (so, agnostic I guess). But the three mono-theistic religions that make the strongest claims to knowing such a god, or the existence of such a god - I don't believe they're right and don't believe this god exists (so, atheist), and even if they were, to be blunt, I think the God of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is a sick, twisted, aresehole, and I wouldn't want anything to do with him anyway (anti-theism).
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:05 PM   #49
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^ Well, when the loudest voices articulating some particular model of 'the nature of God' are those of fundamentalists and proselytizers, it's likely to have a pretty pronounced authoritarian and paternalistic cast to it. Of course religious or theistic people who don't belong in that category aren't going to be getting in your face with their ideas.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:10 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers View Post
But the three mono-theistic religions that make the strongest claims to knowing such a god, or the existence of such a god - I don't believe they're right and don't believe this god exists (so, atheist), and even if they were, to be blunt, I think the God of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is a sick, twisted, aresehole, and I wouldn't want anything to do with him anyway (anti-theism).
But what about the gods of Hinduism? What about Wicca or Sikhism? There are so many ways to see God rather than the Abrahamic way. By dismissing the Abrahamic idea of a deity, you're simply dismissing those religions, but not others.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:46 PM   #51
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But do you think it's a question of seeing the same god in a different way or are they claiming to know a completely different god from other religions? It certainly seems to be the latter to me (in some religions more so than others) and they can't all be right. It's just as likely that some long lost religion that was snuffed out millenia ago 'knew' the real god. That reason alone is enough for me to dismiss them all outright
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:02 PM   #52
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They're all just interpretations, we're not talking empirical knowledge here, that isn't possible.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:11 PM   #53
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I don't know what "being religious" really means, what the official definition is. I think it means different things to different people. I'm religious according to how I define it and I'm not pushy about it. The one thing I can't stand is stereotyped views of "religious people". People should take the time to get to know individuals and how they behave and think before they stereotype. I think there are just as many narrow minded "non religious" people as there are narrow minded religious people.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:25 PM   #54
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i guess you add me to the list of people who are religious but not overly so. when i was a baby i was baptised presbyterian and was later re-baptised as a non-denominational christian.

catholic, jewish, atheist, muslim, agnostic, i don't care what you do or don't believe, who am i to say what's right or wrong? when i die, i might find out buddha is the "true" god and oops, looks like i got pwned. i certainly don't push my beliefs on anyone else, in my opinion the ones that are the pushiest are just insecure about their faith (whatever it may be). how someone else chooses to live their life spiritually doesn't affect me at all and i don't feel i have anything to gain by trying to change anyone's mind. it's not like i get a toaster for my efforts.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:47 AM   #55
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I'm not religious , not baptized and not from a religious family . My kids are not baptized either and I have them excluded from religious instruction from school . I don't identify with being agnostic or athiest if I identified with anything it would be paganism . I don't push my non belief on anyone but I do think that religion should be separate from state in schools and politics. Very thankful that here in Australia not being religious isn't a big deal and I don't really hear from many pushy atheists. Btw we don't do Santa or the easterbunny either . Keeping it neutral .
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:09 AM   #56
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I like Earnie's point... that science can explain the Big Bang onwards, but science can not explain the second before it/how it started. That blows my mind every time I think about it.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:31 AM   #57
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I don't know what "being religious" really means, what the official definition is.
I don't know either. I guess I see being "religious" as having whatever religion you believe in inform your daily life and non-religious activities, like where you go to school, who you vote for, what you read or watch on TV, etc. I think you can believe in a deity and subscribe to religious doctrine without really being "religious".
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:58 AM   #58
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I like Earnie's point... that science can explain the Big Bang onwards, but science can not explain the second before it/how it started. That blows my mind every time I think about it.
If you have time, this is a great video. I find the most mindblowing bit to be near the end when he discusses the implication of the expanding universe on observable data in the future and how it would be impossible to know if we're experiencing the same thing now.

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 - YouTube

The stardust bit is also amazing, though I'm sure everyone has heard that one before
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:07 PM   #59
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I'm not religious , not baptized and not from a religious family . My kids are not baptized either and I have them excluded from religious instruction from school . I don't identify with being agnostic or athiest if I identified with anything it would be paganism . I don't push my non belief on anyone but I do think that religion should be separate from state in schools and politics. Very thankful that here in Australia not being religious isn't a big deal and I don't really hear from many pushy atheists. Btw we don't do Santa or the easterbunny either . Keeping it neutral .
Just curious what aspects of paganism you identify with. I've always found it to be a bit fuzzy
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:21 PM   #60
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I would best describe my religious views as apathetic. At this point, I don't really care what I believe. I don't feel like talking about religion at all.
my thoughts as well. i pray, just not sure who exactly the message is being delivered to. so it's out there for the taking.
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