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Old 10-03-2009, 07:14 AM   #1
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"Irish voters back EU reform treaty"

Irish voters back EU reform treaty: officials | International | Reuters

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DUBLIN (Reuters) - Irish voters have approved the European Union's Lisbon reform treaty, Ireland's foreign minister and opposition groups said on Saturday, removing an obstacle to the EU's ambitions to increase its global influence.
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EU leaders are now sure to put pressure on the eurosceptic leaders of Poland and the Czech Republic to ratify the treaty.

"Regarding the Polish and Czech presidents, it is a matter for them and it is a matter for their people. The ball is now firmly in their court," European Affairs Minister Dick Roche told Reuters at the main Dublin counting center.

...

Polish President Lech Kaczynski has said he will ratify the charter if Ireland votes "Yes." Czech President Vaclav Klaus could delay approval to await a ruling on a constitutional complaint against the treaty by 17 senators.
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Old 10-03-2009, 07:35 AM   #2
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Honestly, I had hoped the Lisbon Treaty wouldn't pass. Not because I'm against the EU, not at all, but because the treaty in its current form is in many ways too early in the process, and especially because the great majority of countries didn't allow their citizens to vote on it. Or, like in the case of Ireland, let revote when the outcome wasn't the way it was wished for.
It was pretty much pushed down our throats. I'm glad that at least our Constitutional Court could demand some adaptations to the Treaty before it allowed it be passed.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:43 AM   #3
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I'm glad they said yes finally.
But that they had to vote again is just . I mean they said no, and just because the situation has changed now, they said yes. That is not what a voting is intended for...
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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Interesting excerpt from the Reuters article:

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removing an obstacle to the EU's ambitions to increase its global influence.
In other word's, the Irish constitution is an obstacle to the EU's ambitions to increase its global influence, and must be made subservient to EU law - which is precisely what the Yes voters have voted for, whether they realise it or not! The Yes campaign's literature certainly didn't mention this aspect, or at least toned it down.

I voted no, you will not be surprised to hear.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by achtung_girl View Post
I'm glad they said yes finally.
But that they had to vote again is just . I mean they said no, and just because the situation has changed now, they said yes. That is not what a voting is intended for...
There were some changes to the guarantees, to be fair.

Though I voted No, A lot of the propaganda from the No side was nutty and hyperbolic. This and the economy were deciding factors, I feel.

I have a very simple view on this, I think the European Union, or European Economic Community as it was previously termed, or Common Market as it was called even before that, should be just a common free trade market and no more. The majority seem to disagree with me on that, and that's fine.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by achtung_girl View Post
I'm glad they said yes finally.
But that they had to vote again is just . I mean they said no, and just because the situation has changed now, they said yes. That is not what a voting is intended for...
I think that's what troubles me too. You're basically not "allowed" to vote "no." So why have a vote in the first place?
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #7
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I think that's what troubles me too. You're basically not "allowed" to vote "no." So why have a vote in the first place?
To be fair, and I voted No, there were some concrete changes to the guarantees. Some of the leaders of No campaign conceded this.

It appears to have been approved by a very decisive margin and the Yes campaign is entitled to enjoy its celebrations. Frankly, they ran a better campaign. Not difficult, mind you, when all but one of the main political parties and most of the money is behind you. The Yes campaign looked young, energetic and forward thinking whereas the No campaign was made to look, partly through their own fault, as odd, extremist, and, frankly, a bit nuts.

The margin is in line with the large margins European referendums used to achieve in Ireland in the 1970's, 1980's and early 1990's, when the economy was also in a mess.

RT� News: Ireland votes Yes to Lisbon Treaty


Edit: mind you, some of the Yes advocates also come across as nutty and extremist:

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Rebecca Harms and Daniel Cohn-Bendit, EU Green Party:

"This paves the way to securing the treaty that an EU of 27 member states needs, if it is to be better equipped to face these current times of global crisis. Only the Czech President Vaclav Klaus is persisting in blocking this process. Europe must now exert pressure on him to give up his twisted policy of obstruction. The Lisbon Treaty strengthens democracy in Europe."
Pressurise those who don't agree with you until they come up with the 'right' answer?

This Cohn-Bendit character was involved in left wing extremist organisations in his youth, now he appears to suck up to the establishment at every opportunity.
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:23 PM   #8
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Cohn-Bendit has changed a lot since his youth. So did most of those "characters". I think the thing with Vaclav Klaus is, though, he rather seems to have a personal problem with the EU. And the resistance is rather personal. For me, however, it's as bad as a politician signing the Treaty out of personal favor. Though it needs to be considered that in Chechya 17 Senators also filed a complaint of unconstitutionality. I don't really know public opinion there.
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