Iraq: What to do?
- Thread starter AEON
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Galeongirl
Galeonbroad
Can someone elaborate why exactly this guy's the most hated man here?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
He manipulated intelligence and an unintelligent president as well as a shell-shocked, scared public into backing a disterous invasion designed to secure oil and contracts to Halliburton and wrapped up in bullshit about "freedom" while hiring lawyers to alter the rules of warfare so that torture became legalized for a small period of time.
I wouldn't call the invasion of a Iraq a disaster. It did achieve its objectives of removing the Saddam regime at relatively low cost and installed a new semi-democratic government which is struggling at the moment, but still there. A good example of a disaster would be the invasion of the Gallipoli peninsula in World War I. The Allies suffered 56,707 killed in action, and 123,598 wounded in action during the 8 months the invasion lasted. Not a single objective was achieved. Very very high cost with nothing to show for it at all.
Let's say the powers that be decide to split Iraq into three separate countries, a Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia region.
The oil is in the south, so that country would seem to be financially stable right off. And wouldn't the other new states just continue to fight each other in effort to gain more land?
I guess I don't know what ISIS end game is. I know they want a Islamic state, ruled by sharia law. So they get it and then what? Won't they just continue to terrorize other parts of the region to get more $$$ or aid?
Throw in these new countries would be unstable and another Afghanistan type of country. Ruthless warlords allowing other terrorist organizations safe haven.
Really no clue what to do. I guess is it possible to extract the women and children and let the men just kill each other till no one is left
The oil is in the south, so that country would seem to be financially stable right off. And wouldn't the other new states just continue to fight each other in effort to gain more land?
I guess I don't know what ISIS end game is. I know they want a Islamic state, ruled by sharia law. So they get it and then what? Won't they just continue to terrorize other parts of the region to get more $$$ or aid?
Throw in these new countries would be unstable and another Afghanistan type of country. Ruthless warlords allowing other terrorist organizations safe haven.
Really no clue what to do. I guess is it possible to extract the women and children and let the men just kill each other till no one is left
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
you realize that you're comparing a single (legendarily disastrous) battle to a war and 8 years of occupation?
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
The North also has oil. Kurdistan is developing their fields. Kirkuk especially is sitting on oil, that's what made it so hard thought over.
ISIS' ideology is absolute. They have a ultra-conservative interpretation of islam. It got so bad that shortly after their appearance in Syria the Jabhat al-Nusra, al Qaeda's arm in Syria, engaged in battle with them and al-Zawahiri had to publically disassociate from them.
They are now worth an estimated $1.5 bn with about 500 million stolen in Mossul, and they control a large gas exploration field in Deir-e-Zor, Syria, among other money-generating activities. They are not going to stop their expansion, and where they rule it's hell for the population.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
He may be a troll, but he raises a rather valid point. While I in no way supported the war in Iraq, it's funny to see Dick Chaney labeled the most hated man in FYM when there are legitimately evil people in the world (he's just kinda psuedo-evil...comically evil, almost) that he doesn't even end up in the same conversation as. The war in Iraq was disastrous, but was it a disaster?
Based on what we're seeing now, the fall-out may prove that to be the case, but those isolated 8 years are not what I would likely find myself referring to as a "disaster".
deep
Blue Crack Addict
the most hated man in FYM?
what 10 posters in here think is not that relevant to me.
Cheney is a despicable scumbag,
immoral, amoral seems an understatement. He is lower than Osama bin Laden.
what 10 posters in here think is not that relevant to me.
Cheney is a despicable scumbag,
immoral, amoral seems an understatement. He is lower than Osama bin Laden.
No, seriously?
By any objective measure, the man is evil and at a minimum entirely amoral.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
And I absolutely agree, he is absolutely amoral. I was hoping what I meant would get across, I find the man almost super-villain evil, he's like a real life Lex Luthor. But, he's not gunning people down (mostly), nor committing genocide, silencing large groups of people, etc. So I hesitate to throw the label evil on him, or basically refer to him as the most evil man alive, when there are people in the world who are just evil, absolutely, to the core.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
he did that and much more
Acknowledging that makes the disparity between the two even greater. Most wars of 8 years would make a single battle seem tiny in cost.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
So you agree that it's an impossible comparison.
Say you discovered you were eating in the same restaurant as Cheney one night. What would you do?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
It should be, but given that the cost are reversed, its not.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
When did Dick Cheney commit genocide?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Is genocide the only evil in the world?
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Cheney is absolutely one of the worst human beings on earth and the primary source of evil in the otherwise incompetent Bush administration. Whether or not he's genocidal is simply fussing over one of many applicable negative labels for the man.
Rand Paul ignoring party lines and attacking Cheney made my day.
Rand Paul ignoring party lines and attacking Cheney made my day.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Hey, let's not pretend for one second that's what I said, OK? I'm sticking to my guns on this one, Cheney's definitely not the most evil man alive. Doesn't mean he's not a horrible, horrible human being. I just find it a little strange to see him be the most hated person in this forum, because there are people out there responsible for a lot more. That was my point, and I'm pretty sure that was clear from the beginning, so I'm not sure why arguing over semantics/words was necessary. I'm not about to make a list of evil people/evils, myself. Suffice it to say this much: I hate the guy.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Rest assured, it's not just Interference:
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Like I'm not aware, I'm pretty sure I just said that about five different times.
Speaking of putting words in people's mouth, who are all these people on this forum claiming he is the most hated person alive? I'm sorry but I read that as kind of a tongue in cheek rhetorical question from digitize.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Well, you edited out the part that specifically mentioned FYM as being hyperbolic so I guess I'll just drop it.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Just never mind, it's not worth it. Someone said he's the most hated person on FYM, I find that incredible. That was it. It then went from there, as it tends to do in this forum. I really have nothing else to say on the topic, I've agreed with everything that's been said, wasn't looking for an argument.
Because I realized I was being hyperbolic, but it didn't appear to have much to do with your post.
So it is abundantly clear to everyone: Dick Chaney is a horrible, horrible man. One of the worst things to happen to this country's government and to political relationships the world over.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
At least no one has compared him to Hitler yet. That's when the really thoughtful discourse begins.
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