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Old 06-22-2014, 10:53 PM   #31
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Dick Cheney: FYM's Most Hated Person In the World?
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:35 AM   #32
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Can someone elaborate why exactly this guy's the most hated man here?
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:56 AM   #33
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Can someone elaborate why exactly this guy's the most hated man here?

He manipulated intelligence and an unintelligent president as well as a shell-shocked, scared public into backing a disterous invasion designed to secure oil and contracts to Halliburton and wrapped up in bullshit about "freedom" while hiring lawyers to alter the rules of warfare so that torture became legalized for a small period of time.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:57 AM   #34
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I wouldn't call the invasion of a Iraq a disaster. It did achieve its objectives of removing the Saddam regime at relatively low cost and installed a new semi-democratic government which is struggling at the moment, but still there. A good example of a disaster would be the invasion of the Gallipoli peninsula in World War I. The Allies suffered 56,707 killed in action, and 123,598 wounded in action during the 8 months the invasion lasted. Not a single objective was achieved. Very very high cost with nothing to show for it at all.
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:16 PM   #35
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Let's say the powers that be decide to split Iraq into three separate countries, a Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia region.

The oil is in the south, so that country would seem to be financially stable right off. And wouldn't the other new states just continue to fight each other in effort to gain more land?

I guess I don't know what ISIS end game is. I know they want a Islamic state, ruled by sharia law. So they get it and then what? Won't they just continue to terrorize other parts of the region to get more $$$ or aid?

Throw in these new countries would be unstable and another Afghanistan type of country. Ruthless warlords allowing other terrorist organizations safe haven.

Really no clue what to do. I guess is it possible to extract the women and children and let the men just kill each other till no one is left
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Old 06-23-2014, 01:14 PM   #36
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I wouldn't call the invasion of a Iraq a disaster. It did achieve its objectives of removing the Saddam regime at relatively low cost and installed a new semi-democratic government which is struggling at the moment, but still there. A good example of a disaster would be the invasion of the Gallipoli peninsula in World War I. The Allies suffered 56,707 killed in action, and 123,598 wounded in action during the 8 months the invasion lasted. Not a single objective was achieved. Very very high cost with nothing to show for it at all.


you realize that you're comparing a single (legendarily disastrous) battle to a war and 8 years of occupation?
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
Let's say the powers that be decide to split Iraq into three separate countries, a Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia region.

The oil is in the south, so that country would seem to be financially stable right off. And wouldn't the other new states just continue to fight each other in effort to gain more land?

I guess I don't know what ISIS end game is. I know they want a Islamic state, ruled by sharia law. So they get it and then what? Won't they just continue to terrorize other parts of the region to get more $$$ or aid?

Throw in these new countries would be unstable and another Afghanistan type of country. Ruthless warlords allowing other terrorist organizations safe haven.

Really no clue what to do. I guess is it possible to extract the women and children and let the men just kill each other till no one is left
The North also has oil. Kurdistan is developing their fields. Kirkuk especially is sitting on oil, that's what made it so hard thought over.

ISIS' ideology is absolute. They have a ultra-conservative interpretation of islam. It got so bad that shortly after their appearance in Syria the Jabhat al-Nusra, al Qaeda's arm in Syria, engaged in battle with them and al-Zawahiri had to publically disassociate from them.
They are now worth an estimated $1.5 bn with about 500 million stolen in Mossul, and they control a large gas exploration field in Deir-e-Zor, Syria, among other money-generating activities. They are not going to stop their expansion, and where they rule it's hell for the population.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:11 PM   #38
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you realize that you're comparing a single (legendarily disastrous) battle to a war and 8 years of occupation?
He may be a troll, but he raises a rather valid point. While I in no way supported the war in Iraq, it's funny to see Dick Chaney labeled the most hated man in FYM when there are legitimately evil people in the world (he's just kinda psuedo-evil...comically evil, almost) that he doesn't even end up in the same conversation as. The war in Iraq was disastrous, but was it a disaster?

Based on what we're seeing now, the fall-out may prove that to be the case, but those isolated 8 years are not what I would likely find myself referring to as a "disaster".
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:44 PM   #39
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the most hated man in FYM?

what 10 posters in here think is not that relevant to me.

Cheney is a despicable scumbag,
immoral, amoral seems an understatement. He is lower than Osama bin Laden.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:56 PM   #40
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it's funny to see Dick Chaney labeled the most hated man in FYM when there are legitimately evil people in the world (he's just kinda psuedo-evil...comically evil, almost)
No, seriously?

By any objective measure, the man is evil and at a minimum entirely amoral.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:09 PM   #41
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No, seriously?

By any objective measure, the man is evil and at a minimum entirely amoral.
And I absolutely agree, he is absolutely amoral. I was hoping what I meant would get across, I find the man almost super-villain evil, he's like a real life Lex Luthor. But, he's not gunning people down (mostly), nor committing genocide, silencing large groups of people, etc. So I hesitate to throw the label evil on him, or basically refer to him as the most evil man alive, when there are people in the world who are just evil, absolutely, to the core.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:15 PM   #42
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But, he's not gunning people down (mostly), nor committing genocide, silencing large groups of people, etc.
he did that and much more
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:21 PM   #43
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you realize that you're comparing a single (legendarily disastrous) battle to a war and 8 years of occupation?
Acknowledging that makes the disparity between the two even greater. Most wars of 8 years would make a single battle seem tiny in cost.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:24 PM   #44
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So you agree that it's an impossible comparison.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:24 PM   #45
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the most hated man in FYM?

what 10 posters in here think is not that relevant to me.

Cheney is a despicable scumbag,
immoral, amoral seems an understatement. He is lower than Osama bin Laden.
Say you discovered you were eating in the same restaurant as Cheney one night. What would you do?
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