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Old 08-21-2014, 10:34 AM   #196
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It would be nice if this was truly meaningful but the Saudi royal family is terrified of political Islam as it is a direct threat to their autocratic dictatorship (that's exactly what it is), so this is quite self-serving. It's like choosing shit vs. diarrhea, sure one is better but the smell of both makes your stomach turn.
I'm sure they wouldn't be totally heartbroken if Sunnis controlled Iraq again, as well.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:44 AM   #197
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Sen. Feinstein: Obama was 'Too Cautious' on ISIS - NBC News

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Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein said President Obama was “too cautious” when he said the United States hasn’t developed a strategy to combat the terrorist group Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, remarks that were criticized as projecting weakness.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:54 PM   #198
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Well, truth is, he is right. Winning militarily might even be the smallest problem, though this article gives some interesting perspective on why that might be overt optimism.

The problem is, too many hawkish minded people think that kicking ISIS' butt would solve anything. But the problem lies much deeper and must be addressed by both the West and the Middle Eastern societies: How to fight the fundamentalism and deep divisions within societies that let groups like ISIS thrive? And for that, a strategy indeed seems a long ways ahead.

All the while, the need of the people seeking refuge in the Kurdish areas is still extraordinary. Some 1.5 million people are living there now. In Duhok, the third largest city of Kurdistan, there are now more IDPs and refugees than inhabitant. Most of the people of Sinjar have flocked there. Every free space has turned a refugee location. The schools are all refugee shelters, but summer holidays end on Sep. 12. By November or December, temperatures will drop and snowfall is going to set in in that region.

We (Welcome to the Jiyan Foundation for Human Rights) have now had two distributions of aid, once water and ice to mainly Christian refugees in Erbil, and another time food and hygiene kits to mostly Yezidi families in and around Duhok. We even could deliver two air conditioners to families in the town Chamchamal (itself mainly made up of Kurdish persons who got permanently displaced in the Anfal genocide of the 1980s) which provide some cool air in the extremely hot city, and can provide some heat in the winter. Next step is going to distribute more of this, along with medication and then psychosocial services.

It should nonetheless be forgotten that this is all tied in in the ongoing war in Syria. Back in 2011 already, Assad's regime reportedly released Islamists fighters from its prison, while warning the world that helping the rebels would mean helping jihadists. In other words, it created its own self-fulfilling prophecy. Tellingly, Assad's military hardly ever targeted ISIS in Raqqa, in the east of Syria. This way, ISIS could thrive and carry out more attacks, making itself a name alongside al-Nusra, and thus making people outside the country believe the rebels really are Islamists fighting there, while Assad could concentrate on the moderate rebels, civillians, and ultimately even gas Damascus neighbourhoods and get away with it.

Two days ago, the UN officially counted three million Syrian refugees, plus about 6.5 to 7 million internally displaced, and almost 200,000 people killed. All numbers are rather conservative estimates. This renders the current refugee crisis the largest operation in UNHCR's history. There is an interesting project trying to put this war in perspective, called "If we were Syrian". Since most here come from the US, I thought of taking the US as example of the impact: America | If We Were Syrian
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:30 PM   #199
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More awful news today:

ISIS Beheads American Journalist Steven Sotloff, Monitoring Group Says - NBC News
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #200
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i really don't know what to do.

but i do think that bombing the fuck out of ISIS because they are potentially the worst people on the planet isn't a strategy.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:56 PM   #201
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Unbelievable.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:58 PM   #202
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i really don't know what to do.

but i do think that bombing the fuck out of ISIS because they are potentially the worst people on the planet isn't a strategy.
It's a start.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:14 PM   #203
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It's a start.

did we learn nothing from 2003?
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:16 PM   #204
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did we learn nothing from 2003?
This seems more like mid-90's Rwanda instead of 2003 Iraq.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:17 PM   #205
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This seems more like mid-90's Rwanda instead of 2003 Iraq.

i think it's way, way more complicated. i initially thought the same thing too, but there's such a different history and we never invaded and occupied Rwanda.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:34 PM   #206
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i think it's way, way more complicated. i initially thought the same thing too, but there's such a different history and we never invaded and occupied Rwanda.
True. But I am focusing on the true humanitarian crisis here. We (the UN, NATO, US...etc) have the capacity to protect and preserve these communities and tribes that have been in existence for thousands of years. Our world is better and richer because these pockets of people exist.

It seems these towns are surrounded by desert - so in theory, it could be easy to establish several long-term military outposts (manned mostly by Iraqi Army) with Allied air support and surveillance.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:36 PM   #207
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True. But I am focusing on the true humanitarian crisis here. We (the UN, NATO, US...etc) have the capacity to protect and preserve these communities and tribes that have been in existence for thousands of years. Our world is better and richer because these pockets of people exist.

It seems these towns are surrounded by desert - so in theory, it could be easy to establish several long-term military outposts (manned mostly by Iraqi Army) with Allied air support and surveillance.

can't disagree to much here.
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Old 09-02-2014, 05:48 PM   #208
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The problem is that they have embedded themselves in the population by killing a substantial number and forcing the remaining civilians to convert to their brand of Islam. If I am being honest I won't lose sleep over anyone carpet bombing ISIS into a historical footnote, but what do you do with those poor people around them?

I do think that Western countries, and particularly the UK, are doing a terrible job of monitoring their citizens who have been heading over to Syria over the last year or two. It is simply unacceptable that some countries have hundreds, maybe a couple of thousand (!!) of their citizens going over there and beheading people, raping, pillaging, etc. I certainly think that at least at home we should do a better job and force Turkey's hand since that's where all these jihadis are crossing the border into Syria.

It's appalling, all of it.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:30 PM   #209
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A Sunni Muslim journalist from Lebanon gets beheaded by ISIS to be shared on twitter, youtube and facebook: No one gives a fuck.
American journalists get beheaded by ISIS to be shared on twitter, youtube and facebook: We will seek revenge, those barbarians, how dare they, we need to do something....

Or as a tweet by the Syrian Revolution Network, part of the peaceful, moderate opposition put it: He wasn’t only killed by #ISIS but also those who’ve done nothing to stop the butcher of #Syria. RIP Steven Sotloff.

All eyes are now focussed on ISIS. Their publicity works better than that of many well-paid PR agencies. This leaves the West ample room to ignore the fact that its inaction and indecisiveness was what created the breeding ground for ISIS in the first place. Meanwhile, Assad can continue to kill more civilians day by day without much hassle from outside the country.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:46 PM   #210
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