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Old 09-29-2009, 09:59 PM   #106
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Pretty sure the Iran hostage crisis and both attacks on the WTC happened well before the "lies" Bush spun to take us to war in Iraq. But we're part of the Big Zionist Conspiracy so we had it coming, right?
Which is why I said, if you look closely,
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made them hate us even more than they already did.
Now, let me make a very important and fundamental point about all of this. To me, it should be a relatively clear and obvious point but, for some - particularly in the West, frankly - it apparently isn't, and I genuinely don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Seeking to understand why actions such as the first or second World Trade Centre bombings, or for that matter, the Iran hostage crisis, or what happened in London in July 2005, or the Madrid train bombings a year before, is no way supportive of any of those disgusting and disgraceful criminal acts of murder and terrorism.

In fact, it's the complete opposite of that. It's a process of trying to understand why these dreadful events happened in order to try to ensure that they don't happen again.

The difference between the point of view of anti-war people and that of Bush/Cheney, for example, is that we say it's a crime to kill innocent people for the crimes of guilty people whether it happens in London, or New York, or Afghanisation, or Iraq, or Madrid, or Tel Aviv, or anywhere in this world.

We don't just say it's a crime when it happens in New York or London or Madrid. In other words, the blood of some peoples' should not be more valuable that the blood of others. That philosophy that there should be different values on different peoples' blood is immoral, evil, and wrong - as the 911 bombings were immoral, evil, and wrong.

That's the difference. Please, try and grasp this point. I am trying to explain it as best I can. The blood of some people should not be more valuable that the blood of others.

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But we're part of the Big Zionist Conspiracy so we had it coming, right?
It isn't a conspiracy. It's pretty open, pretty up front and out there, at least for those that have eyes to see. It isn't necessarily Zionist either, for that matter, certainly not specifically so. The 'conspiracy' certainly isn't in the long term interests of Israeli citizens, or of Jewish people in general. Or of you, or of Strongbow, or of me.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:17 PM   #107
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Those are so laughable I thought them a parody... but the author is serious.

Scary.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:00 PM   #108
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Pretty sure the Iran hostage crisis and both attacks on the WTC happened well before the "lies" Bush spun to take us to war in Iraq. But we're part of the Big Zionist Conspiracy so we had it coming, right?


but i thought 9-11 changed everything and now we have to torture people and invade unrelated countries in order to keep us safe?
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:51 PM   #109
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Those are so laughable I thought them a parody... but the author is serious.

Scary.
Really? That's the best you can do?

In reading the whole piece, which I'll assume you did, what exactly did you find laughable and why?
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:00 PM   #110
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Let Iran have its bombs. They're a sovereign country.

An Israeli attack only delays the inevitable and doubles (triples?) the price of oil overnight.


Iran knows that America or Israel could make the country a parking lot in a few minutes time.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:19 AM   #111
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I suppose the US government would just stand idly by in the event of a revolution by disaffected elements?
You bet! I am old enough to remember Iranian students during the late seventies kept American citizens as their "guest."

Should they overthrow their own government? Well, what ever floats their boat. Should the United States help? Not on your life....screw em!
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:54 PM   #112
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Really? That's the best you can do?

In reading the whole piece, which I'll assume you did, what exactly did you find laughable and why?
I believe the Canadian delegation was the first to walk out on Ahmadinejad's speech at the U.N. Why don't you ask them what they found so objectionable.
As for the author of the piece, I don't waste my time trying to understand "useful idiots."
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:24 PM   #113
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I believe the Canadian delegation was the first to walk out on Ahmadinejad's speech at the U.N. Why don't you ask them what they found so objectionable.
As for the author of the piece, I don't waste my time trying to understand "useful idiots."
I'd probably walk out too, he's a jackass. However, it was you I was asking and it wasn't about his speech.

I also wasn't asking your opinion of the author of the piece who may also be a jackass.

Content. Focus.

What specifically do you dispute in the content or facts presented?
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:36 PM   #114
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Well, at least during the G20 while everyone was pointing a 'gotcha' finger at Iran, no one noticed that the economic summit accomplished next to nothing on the economic front. Even Stongbow ditched the thread once the summit was over.

Mission accomplished.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:22 AM   #115
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Which is why I said, if you look closely,

Now, let me make a very important and fundamental point about all of this. To me, it should be a relatively clear and obvious point but, for some - particularly in the West, frankly - it apparently isn't, and I genuinely don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Seeking to understand why actions such as the first or second World Trade Centre bombings, or for that matter, the Iran hostage crisis, or what happened in London in July 2005, or the Madrid train bombings a year before, is no way supportive of any of those disgusting and disgraceful criminal acts of murder and terrorism.

In fact, it's the complete opposite of that. It's a process of trying to understand why these dreadful events happened in order to try to ensure that they don't happen again.

The difference between the point of view of anti-war people and that of Bush/Cheney, for example, is that we say it's a crime to kill innocent people for the crimes of guilty people whether it happens in London, or New York, or Afghanisation, or Iraq, or Madrid, or Tel Aviv, or anywhere in this world.

We don't just say it's a crime when it happens in New York or London or Madrid. In other words, the blood of some peoples' should not be more valuable that the blood of others. That philosophy that there should be different values on different peoples' blood is immoral, evil, and wrong - as the 911 bombings were immoral, evil, and wrong.

That's the difference. Please, try and grasp this point. I am trying to explain it as best I can. The blood of some people should not be more valuable that the blood of others.



It isn't a conspiracy. It's pretty open, pretty up front and out there, at least for those that have eyes to see. It isn't necessarily Zionist either, for that matter, certainly not specifically so. The 'conspiracy' certainly isn't in the long term interests of Israeli citizens, or of Jewish people in general. Or of you, or of Strongbow, or of me.
I understand what you are saying and I agree. Murder, terrorism is horrible no matter whom, or what country it is committed against. I doubt, that any American would view ourselves as being more important than anyone else. I know. I don't. I felt just as badly, seeing the bombings in Madrid and London. As I did with the terroristic acts committed against New York and Washington D.C.

I do think you have a good point. Trying to understand what happened and why. Could possibly prevent terroristic acts in the future. At least, I hope so. If the United States and Europe can settle the Iranian nuclear problem, diplomatically. Of course, this is the best possible solution. I pray, this will happen. I don't think Americans want to go to war again.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:59 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Bluer White View Post
An Israeli attack only delays the inevitable and doubles (triples?) the price of oil overnight.
The demise of the dollar - Business News, Business - The Independent

By Robert Fisk
Tuesday, 6 October 2009
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In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
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This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy.
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China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.
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Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:10 PM   #117
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INSKEEP: We have, in a previous interview, discussed how you feel (the Holocaust) is being used unjustly to justify Israel, so we need not cover that ground again. But if you would like to describe to me what specifically you believe happened between 1942 and 1945, I would be interested.

AHMADINEJAD: But then 1942 to 1945 is still about the Holocaust, right? I do raise a couple of questions about the Holocaust, and you are a member of the media, and I believe that you should actually tell people what these questions are, and try to receive answers from them as well.
The first question is, is the Holocaust a historical event or not? It is a historical event. And, having said that, there are numerous historical events. So the next question is, why is it that this specific event has become so prominent? Normally, ordinary people and historians pay attention to historical events. Why are politicians giving so much attention to this particular event? Why are they so biased about it? Does this event effect what is happening on the ground this day, now? What we say is that genocide is the result of racial discrimination. Sometimes we look at history to learn the lessons of history.

INSKEEP: Are you acknowledging that millions of people were killed? Millions of Jews, specifically, were killed during World War II?

AHMADINEJAD: If you bear with me so that I can complete my statements, you will receive your answer. I'm asking, and I'm asking a number of serious questions. And I'm not addressing these questions to you, but to a wider audience — everyone — anyone who cares about the fate of humanity; who care about human beings and the rights of people. These are serious questions. If we are looking at history with the aim to learn — derive lessons from it, then what this indicates is that in the future, we should not carry out the same mistakes that were done in the past. While I personally was not alive 60 years ago, I happen to be alive now, and I can see that genocide is happening now under the pretext of an event that happened 60 years ago. So the fundamental question I raise here is that, if this event happened, where did it happen? As a form of an objection question, who was it carried by? Why should the Palestinian people make up for it?

That really shows me a lack of common knowledge.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:51 PM   #118
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That really shows me a lack of common knowledge.
in what sense?
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:09 PM   #119
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So the fundamental question I raise here is that, if this event happened, where did it happen? As a form of an objection question, who was it carried by?
I guess he never took history in school, or the history classes they have there don't tell them such things.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:46 PM   #120
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Is the Iranian President questioning the actual event or how many people (Jewish) were put to death? I have heard both. But, I would like to hear other opinions than the American Media.
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