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Old 08-22-2010, 09:14 AM   #1
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Iran General Discussion

Irans been in the news a lot lately (What else is new), but I haven't seen a lot of talk about it here.


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Ahmadinejad unveils new 'bomber' drone

TEHRAN (AFP) – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad unveiled on Sunday a new long-range drone, dubbed Karar, which reportedly can bomb targets at high speed, state television reported.

Television footage showed the president applauding as a blue cloth which had been covering the drone was pulled back to reveal a short aircraft painted in military-green with the words "Bomber jet" written on its side.

Images were then broadcast on television showing the aircraft flying.

"This jet, before it heralds death for enemies, is the messenger of salvation and dignity for humanity," Ahmadinejad said in his speech marking the unveiling of the drone in a hall at Tehran's Malek Ashtar university.

The unveiling of the aircraft comes as Iran marks on Sunday its annual Defence Industry Day.

State television's website reported that the drone has "different capabilities, including carrying bombs to destroy targets." It said the plane can fly for a "long range at high speed."

The website cited Defence Minister Ahmad Vahidi as saying that the Karar is a "symbol of the versatility and advancement of Iran's defence industries."

The unveiling of Karar, the nickname of Imam Ali, the first Shiite imam, comes two days after Iran test fired a domestically built surface-to-surface missile, Qiam (Rising).

Over the next few days Iran is expected to make series of further military announcements as the nation marks the annual government week, a period used by Tehran to tout its achievements.

In this period Iran is also expected to test fire a third generation Fateh 110 (Conqueror) missile. Iran has previously paraded a version of Fateh 110 which has a travel range of 150 to 200 kilometres (90 to 125 miles).

Also during government week, the production lines of two missile-carrying speedboats, Seraj (Lamp) and Zolfaqar (named after Imam Ali's sword) are due to be inaugurated.

The unveiling of Karar comes days after Iran took delivery of four new mini-submarines of the home-produced Ghadir class. Weighing 120 tonnes, the "stealth" submarines are aimed at operations in shallow waters, notably in the Gulf.

Iranian officials regularly boast about Tehran's military capabilities and the latest declarations coincide with warnings by local officials against any attack on the Islamic republic.

Iran's arch-foes the United States and Israel have not ruled out a military strike against Tehran to stop its controversial uranium enrichment programme.

Meanwhile, Iran on Saturday began loading nuclear fuel in its Russian-built first nuclear power plant located in the southern port of Bushehr.

The plant, which is not targeted by UN sanctions, eventually aims to generate 1,000 megawatts of electricity.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:43 AM   #2
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What is there to say really? It's Hitler all over again.....a tiny man with delusions of grandeur who is fighting against the entire world......while the world sits by and does absolutely nothing.

Iran is actually a beautiful country. I've seen pictures of its countryside, cities and highway systems and its people could enjoy a wonderful and full life if they weren't ruled by a madman bent on destruction.

It frightens me that this idiot is within a hair's breadth of having a nuclear weapon, especially with his worldwide network of terrorists - the Hezbollah in particular. Can you imagine the horror that would be unleashed if they got a hold of a nuclear weapon? NOBODY would be safe......

Iran is acting like a spoiled child with a new toy.....but don't worry.......WE have toys of various kinds too and we know how to play with them.....

Israel will know how to defend itself against any threat and I can guarantee you that if ONE missile falls here Iran will be reduced to a large oil slick that will make the gulf look like a rain puddle.

Let's just hope we don't get to that situation......
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
What is there to say really? It's Hitler all over again.....
There goes any potential for rational discussion.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:32 PM   #4
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There goes any potential for rational discussion.
It's a stretch, but a valid comparison. Hey, they both have a disdain for the Jewish people.

Imagine how shit like this makes people in Israel feel. AchtungBono you live in Israel, correct?
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #5
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It's a stretch, but a valid comparison. Hey, they both have a disdain for the Jewish people.

Imagine how shit like this makes people in Israel feel. AchtungBono you live in Israel, correct?
No, it really isn't a valid comparison because no thinking human being could actually believe that Ahmadinejad is in any sort of position to replicate Hitler's actions. The fact he is an anti-semite is a quality he probably shares with millions of other bigots around the world. Even within Iran he is a man with little to no actual power to do anything.

I have empathy for Israeli fears but that doesn't mean that we should make baseless comparisons.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:56 PM   #6
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Even within Iran he is a man with little to no actual power to do anything.
Really?
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:52 PM   #7
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Really?
Yeah, my understanding is that it's their religious council or something that holds the actual power. He's basically a figurehead, and a cartoonish one at that.

I doubt however that Iran would be able to get away with annexing this country and that the way Hitler did and the world stand by and do nothing.
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Old 08-22-2010, 08:46 PM   #8
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Yeah, my understanding is that it's their religious council or something that holds the actual power. He's basically a figurehead, and a cartoonish one at that.

I doubt however that Iran would be able to get away with annexing this country and that the way Hitler did and the world stand by and do nothing.
Bingo.

Ahmadinejad does have his supporters, and he's absolutely a nutcase and total idiot. Can't argue that. But I don't think he has quite the frightening ability Hitler had to control mass groups of people and get them to do his bidding.

And then of course there's this...

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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Iran is acting like a spoiled child with a new toy.....but don't worry.......WE have toys of various kinds too and we know how to play with them.....
Yes. Your homeland, as well as the U.S. both have those kinds of weapons, too. And both your country and the U.S. have had their actions be seen as questionable at best, dangerous at worst, by other countries around the world at various points in time throughout our histories. So tell me why when Iran has a drone, it's so horrible, but Israel or the U.S. can have them and that's just a-ok? Our drones have caused innocent deaths, too, after all.

I certainly don't want Iran getting its hands on this stuff or any other sort of nasty weapons. But I don't want Israel, the U.S., or any other country having them, either.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:21 AM   #9
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No, it really isn't a valid comparison because no thinking human being could actually believe that Ahmadinejad is in any sort of position to replicate Hitler's actions. The fact he is an anti-semite is a quality he probably shares with millions of other bigots around the world. Even within Iran he is a man with little to no actual power to do anything.

I have empathy for Israeli fears but that doesn't mean that we should make baseless comparisons.
Hi Anitram,

Actually, if you think about it, MA is MORE dangerous than Hitler was. Hitler was "confined" to Europe only. He was unable to penetrate Britain and certainly not the United States, whereas MA has more of a long-range reach.

Hitler had the Gestapo, the SS and the SA to do his dirty work for him and Iran has the Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad who are deployed worldwide to strike out anywhere in the world (case in point - the bombing of the Jewish cultural center in Buenos Aires that was carried out under Iran's orders). Add to that Iran's nuclear aspirations and arsenal of long-range missiles that can reach anywhere in the Middle East and even parts of Europe, and you have a much more immediate and dangerous threat to worldwide stability.

In addition, Hitler laughed in the face of Chamberlain in Munich when the allies caved in and gave him the Sudetenland in exchange for "peace in our time" (hah!) and the same thing is happening now with MA saying that his country's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes.... (if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you're interested).

As for sanctions (which truly have the Iranians shaking in their boots I'm sure....). We can see the wonderful results of the sanctions right here: Iran starts nuclear reactor, says intent peaceful - Yahoo! News

In short, do not underestimate the strength of Iran.......it is like a huge octopus with long-reaching tentacles that may be far from its body but reach a very long distance.

For that matter, don't underestimate Israel's determination to stop Iran from becoming a major threat to us....one way or the other.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:49 AM   #10
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So tell me why when Iran has a drone, it's so horrible, but Israel or the U.S. can have them and that's just a-ok? Our drones have caused innocent deaths, too, after all.
For the same reason that when a criminal carries a pistol it's illegal and when a policeman carries a pistol it's allowed.

Both pistols have the same consequences when used but their deployment is different - the first is used for criminal activities and the second is used for defence and deterrance and law enforcement.

Quote:
I certainly don't want Iran getting its hands on this stuff or any other sort of nasty weapons. But I don't want Israel, the U.S., or any other country having them, either.
Regardless of whether or not Israel has nuclear weapons....and I'm not saying we do or don't.....Israel and the United States do not pose the threat that Iran does. So you can be assured that if Israel does have nuclear weapons we will not be the first ones to use them and we certainly will not threaten to wipe any country off the map like Iran likes to do.

In a perfect world, there would be no weapons at all...but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Hi Anitram,

Actually, if you think about it, MA is MORE dangerous than Hitler was. Hitler was "confined" to Europe only.
Oh I've thought about it. I don't agree.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:58 AM   #12
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So tell me why when Iran has a drone, it's so horrible, but Israel or the U.S. can have them and that's just a-ok? Our drones have caused innocent deaths, too, after all.
Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the Earth. So yes, every new piece of technology they unveil which brings them closer to the ability to do so is a bit frightning.

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I certainly don't want Iran getting its hands on this stuff or any other sort of nasty weapons. But I don't want Israel, the U.S., or any other country having them, either.
Really? I certainly do.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:43 AM   #13
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Oh I've thought about it. I don't agree.
I'd like to know why you don't agree.
Do you really think that MA isn't dangerous or a threat to world stability?
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:11 AM   #14
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Most people acknowledge he's dangerous, but few think he has the power of Hitler.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
For the same reason that when a criminal carries a pistol it's illegal and when a policeman carries a pistol it's allowed.

Both pistols have the same consequences when used but their deployment is different - the first is used for criminal activities and the second is used for defence and deterrance and law enforcement.
Except that sometimes who the "criminal" is and who the "policeman" is isn't always so clear. Add in the fact that police have been known to horribly abuse their powers, too, and that makes things a little tougher.

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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Regardless of whether or not Israel has nuclear weapons....and I'm not saying we do or don't.....Israel and the United States do not pose the threat that Iran does. So you can be assured that if Israel does have nuclear weapons we will not be the first ones to use them and we certainly will not threaten to wipe any country off the map like Iran likes to do.
Citizens in Arab countries would probably feel differently about whether or not we or Israel are a threat. And as for the U.S., um, let's ask the people of Hiroshima about that, shall we? Last I checked it wasn't a Middle Eastern country responsible for that event.

Any country that has nuclear weapons is a threat to somebody. We may not see ourselves as threatening. You may not see yourselves as threatening. Iran may not see themselves as threatening. But in someone else's eyes, any one of the three are seen that way.

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In a perfect world, there would be no weapons at all...but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world.
You're right, sadly, it isn't. But there's ways to handle this potential problem without making the situation even worse for everybody.

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Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the Earth. So yes, every new piece of technology they unveil which brings them closer to the ability to do so is a bit frightning.
You know, I've heard people here in the States say that certain areas of the world should "just be nuked" numerous times, whether jokingly or dead serious (and sometimes it's hard to tell). Many an American has said we should just nuke the Middle East altogether. How is that any different?

And again, we have nukes, and have used them. To somebody else in the world, that is frightening, too. I'm quite sure that a family in the Middle East doesn't really give a damn where the bombs are coming from or who it is that's dropping them at the time of the event, all they know is that their home is destroyed and their family's lives are in danger. Or one of their loved ones is dead. And funny thing, that sometimes tends to make them angry and suspicious.

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Really? I certainly do.
But if we do manage to get them out of the hands of Iran and other countries of that ilk, then why do we need ours? The threat's over, isn't it? It seems pointless to continue to keep a weapon if you've managed to get rid of the threat, doesn't it?

It just makes us seem hypocritical, sorry. I know it's hard for some people to accept that their own country can be seen as dangerous to other people, but the truth is it's all in the eye of the beholder.

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Old 08-25-2010, 12:22 PM   #16
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Except that sometimes who the "criminal" is and who the "policeman" is isn't always so clear.
I think in this case it's pretty damn clear.

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Citizens in Arab countries would probably feel differently about whether or not we or Israel are a threat. And as for the U.S., um, let's ask the people of Hiroshima about that, shall we? Last I checked it wasn't a Middle Eastern country responsible for that event.
Japan bears responsibility for what happened. They brought it upon themselves. Don't ask us to apologize for that, because we won't. In fact, you should be pissed even more at Japan because they made us do it twice.

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You know, I've heard people here in the States say that certain areas of the world should "just be nuked" numerous times, whether jokingly or dead serious (and sometimes it's hard to tell). Many an American has said we should just nuke the Middle East altogether. How is that any different?
They're not the ones in command...

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But if we do manage to get them out of the hands of Iran and other countries of that ilk, then why do we need ours? The threat's over, isn't it? It seems pointless to continue to keep a weapon if you've managed to get rid of the threat, doesn't it?
Right, because after the threats been dealt with the world goes back to being perfect. Why didn't we just disband the military after World War II? Or World War I? Or the war of 1812? Why do we even have a military? To protect us from threats, current and future.



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It just makes us seem hypocritical, sorry. I know it's hard for some people to accept that their own country can be seen as dangerous to other people, but the truth is it's all in the eye of the beholder.
No I can completely see why certain other countries see us as dangerous. Most of the time that keeps them from doing stupid things. A lot of people hate us, so why havn't any country (not state-sponsered terrorists) attacked us directly since Pearl Harbor? Because we have the strongest military in the world and we would walk all over them. It's not hypocritical at all, its just how the world works.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:02 AM   #17
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I think in this case it's pretty damn clear.
Not necessarily. The people of Iran, while they may not be fans of Ahmadinejad, might still see having weapons for protection as a good thing for them.

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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
Japan bears responsibility for what happened. They brought it upon themselves. Don't ask us to apologize for that, because we won't. In fact, you should be pissed even more at Japan because they made us do it twice.
I have a problem believing it was necessary to take out a ton of innocent people for the actions of a few. I've always felt that way. Two wrongs don't make a right.

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They're not the ones in command...
You don't think there's anyone in a position or potential position of command that thinks that way? And we're the ones who vote for people who we want to carry out our wishes, so actually, yeah, we do have some power over that.

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Right, because after the threats been dealt with the world goes back to being perfect. Why didn't we just disband the military after World War II? Or World War I? Or the war of 1812? Why do we even have a military? To protect us from threats, current and future.
Yes, I understand that. I was talking about a permanent removal of the threat. If we made the lack of weapons in the Middle East a permanent thing, then there'd be no need for us to have any, 'cause the threat would be gone for good. A perfect world scenario, yes, but that's what I meant.

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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
No I can completely see why certain other countries see us as dangerous. Most of the time that keeps them from doing stupid things. A lot of people hate us, so why havn't any country (not state-sponsered terrorists) attacked us directly since Pearl Harbor? Because we have the strongest military in the world and we would walk all over them. It's not hypocritical at all, its just how the world works.
Yeah, we have a mighty military that can show off with its shock and awe and bombs and fancy technology, but that's all we're good at. We go in and make a mess, but we haven't solved the actual problem. We've just angered a bunch of people and made them more willing to join up with resistance groups and want weapons of their own for protection. Our reason for wanting weapons and a strong military is the exact same reason used by every other country that has them. The leaders and a few rogue groups may want them for other more sinister reasons, but the average citizen in those countries has the same mindset we do-protect your homeland at all costs.

So a country at large hasn't attacked us. We still get attacked by smaller groups, and that's just as unsettling as being at war with a nation at large. And if everyone involved on both sides isn't careful, eventually it could branch into a legitimate country vs. country war. Just as Iran has to stop rattling people's cages, we have to change some of our behavior, too.

Angela
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:18 AM   #18
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Japan bears responsibility for what happened. They brought it upon themselves. Don't ask us to apologize for that, because we won't. In fact, you should be pissed even more at Japan because they made us do it twice.
Really? Really? Japan is entirely to blame? Japan made us drop an atomic bomb and instantaneously decimate tens of thousands of innocent lives? And then they made us do it twice?

America is the victim here?
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:27 AM   #19
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Isn't it mandatory to believe in American Exceptionalism in order to be a patriot?
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:59 AM   #20
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What is there to say really? It's Hitler all over again.....a tiny man with delusions of grandeur who is fighting against the entire world......while the world sits by and does absolutely nothing.

Iran is actually a beautiful country. I've seen pictures of its countryside, cities and highway systems and its people could enjoy a wonderful and full life if they weren't ruled by a madman bent on destruction.

It frightens me that this idiot is within a hair's breadth of having a nuclear weapon, especially with his worldwide network of terrorists - the Hezbollah in particular. Can you imagine the horror that would be unleashed if they got a hold of a nuclear weapon? NOBODY would be safe......

Iran is acting like a spoiled child with a new toy.....but don't worry.......WE have toys of various kinds too and we know how to play with them.....

Israel will know how to defend itself against any threat and I can guarantee you that if ONE missile falls here Iran will be reduced to a large oil slick that will make the gulf look like a rain puddle.

Let's just hope we don't get to that situation......
I wish we were not even involved with the Middle East. I think our presence may be welcoming for Israel, but not for the other countries.
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