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Old 06-15-2009, 08:49 PM   #106
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My question to conservatives: why continue to defend her? She clearly isn't up to the task. Why not demand better candidates from your party?
There really isn't an official leader at this moment. Palin was on the ticket last election so more people know her. If someone comes up with more skills the public will move quickly to that person. Also it depends on how Obama is viewed. If there is a recovery (not stagflation) and Obama looks good then anyone with great sklll who wants to challenge will probably want to wait until Obama is gone after 8 years to do it. Does anyone see stupid Biden winning as president? That's a harder sell than Palin. In fact he would be too old.

Gingrich wants to go for it, Palin (probably), Pawlenty and some hope for Jindal (though he may be too young). Some want a racial or ethnic choice to nullify Obama and his assertion that conservatives are anti-immigrant.

I'm sure there are lots more names out there in the background that are trying to keep their powder dry until they see an opportunity. Everyone is looking to see how the economy turns out in the next 2 years. Politicians don't want to give their hand because they want to take credit for other people's ideas or be neutral and attack when they see an opportunity. It's WAY too early when it comes to the presidency.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:33 PM   #107
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Then, please, please, take us to your leaders.
Leaders of the Republican Party: Michael Steele, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Mark Sanford (Republican Governor's Association chair)

Leaders of the growing conservative movement: Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Mark Sanford

As of right now, the second group is doing a better job than the first group in helping the Republican Party. Also, Rush, Hannity and others should never be on the first list, and they should only be on the second list if the people on that second list are failing, which they currently are not. That's how I see it.

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This is one of the most laughable, factually inaccurate, partisan, biased statements I've ever read on this board.
Can you tell me what's wrong about it?

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Originally Posted by BVS View Post

Do you honestly look at Palin and think she's an informed woman?
Absolutely.

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In other aspects of life do you see media targets as people who we fear? Do Heidi and Spencer get made fun of because we fear them?
Celebrities cannot shape the country the way politicians do. Heidi and Spencer are not threats to people who want the country to be a certain way and the government to do certain things. The left and the media fear Palin's popularity and attraction, and to counter that they call her names and attack her family and say that her infant son was not actually her child- anything to get people to laugh at her. That's why I see so much personal attack and so little actual policy debate by her detractors.

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Aren't many, because most women know that most male Republican politicans would love to see women back where they belong, in the kitchen...." Honey, I'm home"...
I don't know too many men- much less conservative men- who feel this way...

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My question to conservatives: why continue to defend her? She clearly isn't up to the task. Why not demand better candidates from your party?
Well that's your opinion. I believe she is most certainly up to the task and is highly intelligent. She will be one of a handful of very qualified, very intelligent candidates in 2012, alongside Romney and Gingrich. And for those interested, I don't care much for Jindal, Huckabee or Pawlenty. They're good, but not great. And as far as demanding better candidates from our party- I assume you said the same for the Democrats in 2004.

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Clearly she's popular among the base of the Republican Party, and that's pretty much it. Why not demand a better candidate who will not only appeal to the core supporters, but expand the base altogether?
We'll see. Palin draws huge crowds wherever she goes. I have a feeling that in 3 years the Republican Party will look pretty appealing to fair-minded, non-partisan independents.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:49 PM   #108
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I agree with 2861U2 that the Republican party will probably be electable again sooner than most people think - however, at a moral level, it should firstly repent of its sins regarding the Iraq war, which it probably won't. A lot of these Republicans have blood on their hands, literally in Cheney/Rumsfeld's case.

When they have cleansed themselves of their sins and purged all neo-'conservative' influences from their party, they can rightfully speak to the Democratic party regarding, for example, abortion from a position of moral authority - otherwise, the fires of Hades are not hot enough for them.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:03 PM   #109
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memories are short


when inflation kicks in, interest rates become prohibitively high and the deficits keep growing

they may reinvent themselves as the fiscally responsible party

and with that, they can capture enough of the youth vote to be competitive again.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:06 PM   #110
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Absolutely.
I just don't get this. I honestly don't. I don't see how anyone can see her as informed... it just baffles me.

Do you remember the Palin skit on SNL that was almost word for word Palin's actual answer? Only a few lines were added other than that it was almost verbatim, that is not a sign of an informed person ready to run the country when they don't even have to write the jokes.


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Celebrities cannot shape the country the way politicians do. Heidi and Spencer are not threats to people who want the country to be a certain way and the government to do certain things. The left and the media fear Palin's popularity and attraction, and to counter that they call her names and attack her family and say that her infant son was not actually her child- anything to get people to laugh at her. That's why I see so much personal attack and so little actual policy debate by her detractors.
I'm not suprised you didn't get the point... Media targets are targeted for a reason, and it's not fear. Clinton got made fun of all the time by both sides and it had nothing to do with fear. They made fun of his accent, his womanizing, his eating habits, etc... Take a look at every single other media target and tell me they are motivated by fear...

Why would she be the first? You're fooling yourself by thinking anyone fears this woman.

There is no need to debate "her" policy, she had very little. No one knew what kind of policy she would bring to the table, that was part of the problem.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:07 PM   #111
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I believe she is most certainly up to the task and is highly intelligent.
OK, I can buy somebody arguing that she's not a complete dimwit and has an IQ in the triple digits, but I can't believe you typed that with a straight face.

What an insult to intelligent women.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:16 PM   #112
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I just don't get this. I honestly don't. I don't see how anyone can see her as informed... it just baffles me.

Do you remember the Palin skit on SNL that was almost word for word Palin's actual answer? Only a few lines were added other than that it was almost verbatim, that is not a sign of an informed person ready to run the country when they don't even have to write the jokes.
Do you think you could be too biased to be objective in your opinion of Palin?

She never said she could see Russia from her backyard or front porch or anywhere else. But, the public is sure she did. This is what happens in a Jon Stewart / Steve Colbert generation.

I agree that people that tune in to Rush and Hannity may believe they are well - informed, but they are not.

Will you admit the same for Stewart / Colbert listeners?


As for the SNL skit, I have seen the same thing done with a recording of Obama.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:24 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Leaders of the Republican Party: Michael Steele, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Mark Sanford (Republican Governor's Association chair)

Leaders of the growing conservative movement: Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Mark Sanford
Where the hell are these people then? Why are they allowing Rush and those other dipshits to define their party? Palin and Gingrich have been vocal, but putting their foot in it every time they speak pretty much. (Gingrich is no stranger to having a big, stupid mouth.)


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I believe she is most certainly up to the task and is highly intelligent. She will be one of a handful of very qualified, very intelligent candidates in 2012
Bwahahahaha. That's just funny. She's dumb. I don't care what Letterman says or any of that crap, but when she talks, stupid shit comes out. I'm not afraid of her, etc. She's just dumb.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:27 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post

Can you tell me what's wrong about it?
Yes I can.


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Again I say the seemingly endless bashing of Palin must be based on fear that she can win in 2012. That's the only reason. If she was really such a dumb candidate with no appeal and would be a breeze to defeat, why trash her?
Here, you're invoking something similar to the "jus jellus" internet defense, where anytime someone talks down someone or something they don't like, the reason has to be that the person is "jus jellus." It's very popular with 14 year old girls. I guess here though, we're "jus afraid."

The reason that people "endlessly bash" Palin is because she has made herself an easy target, end of story. Despite you thinking that she is one of the most brilliant, capable woman to walk the face of the earth, many, many people disagree. I think that most people, liberals and conservatives alike, would just prefer that she go away. Instead, she chooses to take part in some ridiculous feud over a clearly facetious comment made by a cranky old late night talk show host that probably only 20 people in the entire country even saw in the first place. I'm not even going to bother mentioning the multitude of things she said or did during the election that made her a target.

The funny part of all of this is that toward the end of the election period, I *almost* felt sorry for her. She was clearly out of her league, and had been thrown into a situation where she floundered badly, and looked like a fool a great deal of the time. McCain and his team deserve a lot of the blame for that, and probably a great deal of it would have been placed with them, if only she had stfu and gone back to her old life up there with her oddly named children, her snow-machine driving husband, and whatever else she does up there when she's not monitoring Alaskan airspace for Russian planes. But no, she doesn't know when to leave well enough alone, and continued to draw negative attention to herself. So yeah, I have very little sympathy for her.

Anyway, the point is, people do not fear her. At all.

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You should be building her up so she wins the nomination and get destroyed by Obama, right?
Again, she's not a threat, so why should we do this?


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All this talk about her being uninformed and stupid is nonsense. Even if that is true- which, of course, it isn't, but even if it was- if there's one thing we learned in November it's that you can win the White House even if you have no substance or knowledge of policy as long as you resonate with people.
You keep talking about how she resonated with people - so why didn't her and McCain win in a landslide, then?

I cannot fathom how someone could make the claim that Obama has no substance or policy knowledge. That's quite a leap. I can buy that some people may not agree with his policy, but to say there's no knowledge behind it? He's come a long way with winning back the respect of the world for the US. Does that mean we all have some sort of blinders on, and he's fooling us all?
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:33 PM   #115
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Do you think you could be too biased to be objective in your opinion of Palin?
No, I can be objective enough to see the difference between informed and uninformed.

I'm not calling the woman stupid, I think some people are confusing the two, I just think she is very uninformed and honestly lacks the curiosity to become informed.

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I agree that people that tune in to Rush and Hannity may believe they are well - informed, but they are not.

Will you admit the same for Stewart / Colbert listeners?
I think the problem with many Rush/Hannity/Beck listeners is that many don't follow other sources, they rely soley on these three to inform them, which is just downright scary. In fact I've heard many of their listeners proudly boast that very fact on air.

I think Stewart and Colbert are a different story, if anyone listens just to these two to become informed then they are even "dumber" than any Rush listener. Stewart and Colbert are on COMEDY CENTRAL, it's marketed as entertainment. So I think the comparison falls short.


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As for the SNL skit, I have seen the same thing done with a recording of Obama, he has said some pretty stupid things.
Yes, we will all say some stupid things in life, especially if we're nervous, but he's been in the spotlight a lot more than she has and no one's ever been able to take one answer almost verbatim and make it into an SNL skit.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:36 PM   #116
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"jus jellus"



I guess things haven't changed that much since I was in high school, that was a very common argument back then, except they used paper and spelled it out...
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:40 PM   #117
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You keep talking about how she resonated with people - so why didn't her and McCain win in a landslide, then?

I really don't want to caught up in this back and forth stuff

but, I will address this one question.

Bush / Cheney was at 22% approval rating

It was only a question of how decimated the the GOP nominee would get.

the fact that McCain / Palin lost by only by 7 per cent is remarkable.


McCain / Romney or McCain / Huckabee would have lost by a much larger margin.

McCain was the right person to be on top of the ticket.

Romney or Huckabee would have lost by much more than 7 %


In 2000 Bill Clinton's approval was at 60 + percent.

and Gore could only beat Bush by .04 percent.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:43 PM   #118
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Yes, we will all say some stupid things in life, especially if we're nervous, but he's been in the spotlight a lot more than she has and no one's ever been able to take one answer almost verbatim and make it into an SNL skit.
What Palin answer are you referring to?
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:46 PM   #119
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I really don't want to caught up in this back and forth stuff

but, I will address this one question.

Bush / Cheney was at 22% approval rating

It was only a question of how decimated the the GOP nominee would get.

the fact that McCain / Palin lost by only by 7 per cent is remarkable.


McCain / Romney or McCain / Huckabee would have lost by much larger margin.

McCain was the right person to be on top of the ticket.

Romney or Huckabee would have lost by much more than 7 %


In 2000 Bill Clinton's approval was 60 + percent.

and Gore could only beat Bush by .04 percent.
Oh, but deep, multitudes of people converged from afar just to gaze upon her fair face, and to hear her weighty words of wisdom. Surely that should have been enough to overcome any deficit handed to them by the Bush administration?


But yes, in seriousness, I know what you're saying, and I agree. Politics are cyclical. That's the way it is, and that's the way it always will be. I think there are factors in society and in each election though that cause attraction and repulsion to various candidates, regardless of whose turn in the cycle it should be.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:48 PM   #120
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What Palin answer are you referring to?
Here's a snippet:

YouTube - CNN Laughs It Up Over Sarah Palin Interview

It went on and used the rest of the answer, and then the writers added a little towards the end.
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