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Old 06-17-2009, 05:39 PM   #436
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Saint Barack had no executive experience before taking up the office of POTUS, and earlier in his career seemingly had no more ambition than to become a 'community organiser'.
Don't be foolish. Anyone who was uncomfortable with Obama being president given his lack of experience and leadership was just letting their inherent racist beliefs get the best of them.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #437
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Purely because this earnings issue seems very, very important to you, I have to point out that her lifetime earnings were most likely higher, or at least on a par with, Obama, before he wrote his book.
They are not of any concern to me whatsoever, in fact I never even wondered what they were until purpleoscar walked in here and said that people (women?) had an issue with her because she had a high salary.

Feel free to read the thread back if you're confused here.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:58 PM   #438
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(2) She doesn't earn as much as those Wall Street type that caused the collapses I already mentioned.
Wow, can you read at all???

Seriously disappointing coming from you.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:58 PM   #439
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Yeah that's not a great example. It takes awhile to surf the net for old stuff. Here are some other examples:

Why aren't women furious about Sarah Palin? | Salon Life
You missed an important clue from the author profile at the bottom there:
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Cintra Wilson's new book, "Caligula for President: Better American Living Through Tyranny," will be in bookstores this October.
What Wilson is known for is over-the-top absurdist, savagely funny pieces meant primarily to entertain. She's not exactly a 'comedy writer' per se, and I don't doubt her sincere loathing of Palin, but this isn't by any stretch meant as an earnest, sober piece of 'feminist analysis,' and Wilson would roar with laughter at any attempts to discuss it as such.

More to the point, though--
Again, what do either of those links have to do with what you were actually being asked about, by several of us, which was your assertion that:


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There were feminists that used sexist arguments against Palin running like that she couldn't have kids and run at the same time. That's old news.
I still don't see where you've answered this. Whether 'feminism' necessarily entails a commitment to a liberal economic agenda specifically might be a worthwhile discussion at some point, but it's not the one you were responding to.

Second Wave feminism was indeed historically associated in the political sphere with Democrats, and for obvious reasons--the Republicans were (among other things) the party of social and cultural conservatism, and women moving en masse into the workplace, availing themselves of contraception, etc. obviously didn't fit too well with that agenda. Things have changed, of course--the aforementioned two shifts have now attained near-universal acceptance, something they certainly didn't have yet in the '60s--but there's a decades-old legacy of party affiliation involved by now, and conservative failures to accept the inevitable and make it their own earlier on have as much to do with that as anything else.
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John Roberts is not a conservative. He's an ex-Muchmusic VJ. Anyways the Republican response corrected him.

Those articles hint that you have to support liberal social projects to be a true feminist and to be supportive of equal rights for women?
Again the syllogistic fallacy here. You seem to want to blame liberals for whatever perceptions exist that 'feminism' essentially entails a liberal economic agenda, but then you also seem to want to say that because so-and-so isn't a conservative, then s/he must be a 'feminist,' so that you can claim them as support for your 'feminists attacked Palin for being a working mother' argument.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:00 PM   #440
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progress.
FYI, I thought that from the beginning, even without your manly help.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:13 PM   #441
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I am so grateful Sarah Palin's title is not "Vice President."

Oh, and If I'm up late enough, I'll still check out Letterman.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:15 PM   #442
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They are not of any concern to me whatsoever, in fact I never even wondered what they were until purpleoscar walked in here and said that people (women?) had an issue with her because she had a high salary.

Feel free to read the thread back if you're confused here.
I know it was Purpleoscar that initally raised the point about her salary, but $125k a year is actually a very high salary by most peoples' standards and probably goes a lot further in Alaska than New York, and no offense, but I would guess that professional Manhattanites are not very typical of average Americans in terms of either earnings or social and cultural attitudes. Plus, her husband is most likely a high earner (works for BP as an oil-field production operator and has his own business also), so their joint earnings are way, way higher than the average American family. So, the examples you raised from your personal experience don't necessarily delegitimise Purpleoscar's point (which, for the record, I don't particularly agree with or disagree with).
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:18 PM   #443
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Yeah that's not a great example. It takes awhile to surf the net for old stuff. Here are some other examples:
And neither were these. If this theory of yours were true, it wouldn't be so hard for you to find examples and you haven't even found one.

You bought into Rush's middle school they're "jus jellus"(thanks vintage) mentality. Grown men should come up with adult theories.

And I think it's fair to say your theory holds no water for you couldn't come up with one example and you got spanked.
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Old 06-17-2009, 06:25 PM   #444
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Therein lies the chaism seperating two schools of thought of-

Liberalism vs Conservatism:

One finds describing a public polictical person's behavorial traits (who can defend herself) equal to or as same joking about the subject of potentially raping a teenage girl, and besmirching her character on national TV-(who can't defend herself).

One is much more grievous than the other.

It's that simple.

<>
I don't think that's quite fair.

I think it's better to say that the difference between liberalism and conservativism is that the former largely operates in a land of make believe and fantasy, of nice but ultimately unrealistic ideas, and the latter sees the world as it really is and tries to make gradual, subtle and sensible improvements to citizens' and families' everyday lives that ultimately work better than what the liberal dreamers dream up. (I exclude revolutionary neo-cons such as Bush/Cheney from my definition of conservatism.) Liberals (as properly defined) tend to go for revolutionary changes, conservatives (as properly defined) are always and everywhere sceptical of revolutionary change.

Sometimes, liberals get it right, and should be given credit for so doing, but unfortunately it would be remiss of me not to point out that most revolutionary change leads to at best, a mess, and at worst, a disaster.

The reason why I'm at core a conservative and not a liberal is ulimately at core the same reason I hate neoconservatism - because of my scepticism, always and everywhere, of revolutionary change. The history of the last two centuries, in my opinion, is excellent backing for my 'philosophy', such as it is.
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:38 PM   #445
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^ Would you consider national independence movements 'revolutionary'?

Actually, if anything I had the general impression that you're a rather idealistic person in your own way. Perhaps that's just a major misread.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:02 PM   #446
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^ Would you consider national independence movements 'revolutionary'?
I would argue that national independence movements are largely restorationist, rather than revolutionary - and hence inherently conservative. To me, it's an inherently conservative idea that the people originally from a particular land have the best claims to govern and regulate life on that land. It seems strange to me that historically, and probably still, it appears to be mainly left wing people that get involved with national independence movements, though in some ways it also makes sense. I think left wing ideology has majorly messed up some legitimate national independence movements, especially in Ireland. Possibly Zimbabwe and South Africa too, now that I come to think of it.

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^ Actually, if anything I had the general impression that you're a rather idealistic person in your own way. Perhaps that's just a major misread.
I think the Myers-Briggs model is interesting in regard to this. I am borderline INTJ/INTP with slightly expressed 'judging'...but the direction of the preferences is said to be more important that the magnitude of preference...in other words, for J's, head rules heart.

Just to mention in passing, if it is the case that you read me as an idealist because of my agreement with or quoting of some 'libertarian conservative' or 'old right' types of ideas, I don't think it's for any idealistic reasons, I think it's because I reckon it's rationally the best way. Of course, I could be wrong.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:35 PM   #447
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And neither were these. If this theory of yours were true, it wouldn't be so hard for you to find examples and you haven't even found one.

You bought into Rush's middle school they're "jus jellus"(thanks vintage) mentality. Grown men should come up with adult theories.

And I think it's fair to say your theory holds no water for you couldn't come up with one example and you got spanked.
Well then who the hell are they responding to here?

Clinton aides: Palin treatment sexist - John F. Harris and Beth Frerking - Politico.com

It's hard to find old examples. Do I have to pay for lexus nexus?

I don't think John Roberts was just talking for himself. It probably was an early talking point that got slammed by the conservatives, before Palin was considered stupid and they ran with that. I don't think they were responding to nothing out of the air.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:45 PM   #448
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Well then who the hell are they responding to here?

Clinton aides: Palin treatment sexist - John F. Harris and Beth Frerking - Politico.com

It's hard to find old examples. Do I have to pay for lexus nexus?

I don't think John Roberts was just talking for himself. It probably was an early talking point that got slammed by the conservatives, before Palin was considered stupid and they ran with that. I don't think they were responding to nothing out of the air.
No, I'm not disagreeing with you that Palin may have gotten some sexist treatment, I still think unfortunately that we're in a day and age that women leaders will be treated different, I think that's a sad reflection on America actually if other countries have had female leaders for decades. But your premise was that it was coming from feminists, and I find that to be faulty logic.

The fact that she has a special needs child I think was at the core of most of these arguments, and for her it IS a double edged sword. In fact that issue did come up from people on both sides. The reason it's a double edged sword is purely based on the reason that conservatives have for a long time and still do to a point speak from a platform about "family values" and how the mother should be there to raise the child. It's one of the reasons many push for home schooling, it's one of the reasons that Murphy Brown was turned into an issue(and apparently still is according to a poster in here), and it's one of the reasons they are against gay adoption. So when you compile all of these angles that conservatives have been pushing for so long you can see how their automatic admiration towards Palin can come off as hypocritical...
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:17 PM   #449
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the latter sees the world as it really is and tries to make gradual, subtle and sensible improvements to citizens' and families' everyday lives that ultimately work better than what the liberal dreamers dream up.
Is it not also fair to say that if we sat around waiting for conservatives to make gradual, subtle and sensible improvements to everyday lives, who knows when women would get to vote, blacks would get to sit at the front of the bus, and gays would get the right to have sex without being thrown in jail on sodomy charges?

Time waits for no man.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:59 PM   #450
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Personally, I simply cannot fucking believe you people.

Letterman's a comedian, so he made jokes, which are tame by today's standards, and were actually more A-Rod/Spitzer jokes than 14-year-old Willow jokes. We're calling rape, prostitution... both wildly inaccurate. Anyway, he's apologized. Why is this still an issue? And people want him fired? God bless America.

How precious are we? Honestly. Harden the fuck up.
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