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Old 08-01-2014, 07:51 PM   #46
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So I'm assuming you also oppose the original colonization of America? The European settlers raped and murdered many indigenous peoples and spread deadly diseases such as smallpox. Or was that type of immigration okay?


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And this applies to the discussion of the present time exactly how again?

Gee society and world populations sure haven't changed much since 400 years ago have they?

OOOH WELL WHAT ABOUT BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO WHEN THE CREATURES THAT IMMIGRATED FROM THE SEAS TO LAND FOR THE FIRST TIME?!?!?!?!? THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH IMMIGRATION!!!!!!
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:58 PM   #47
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AH OK I get the insinuation now!

Since the settlers were WHITE then of COURSE I would think it was OK.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:04 PM   #48
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Yet what about the highly intelligent foreigners. Is it okay if they come here and educate people, or would that qualify as dey took er jerrrrrbs?
As long is they are WHITE. Isn't that the response you're after.

But seriously, most highly intelligent foreigners with skills in high demand get visas and come here legally, not jump a fence or come in by banana boat.

The people that come here illegally aren't usually in that category are they?
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:13 PM   #49
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It's amazing how I'm looking at immigration as an economic issue and a matter of enforcing existing laws that are being watered down and not enforced. Yet you all seem to automatically jump the gun and make it a racial issue right off the bat. It just seems like a cheap cop-out for people that have no other decent argument other than scream racist when they disagree with someone.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:18 PM   #50
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http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...the-us-economy It's too bad that even unskilled illegal immigrants benefit the economy.


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Old 08-01-2014, 08:21 PM   #51
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Immigration

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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
Yet you all seem to automatically jump the gun and make it a racial issue right off the bat. It just seems like a cheap cop-out for people that have no other decent argument other than scream racist when they disagree with someone.


Most of the immigrants who are currently coming to America are Hispanic/Latino. You insinuated that all illegal immigrants were rapists, murderers, and criminals while also insinuating that they are all carrying diseases. That's racist.


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Old 08-01-2014, 08:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
It's amazing how I'm looking at immigration as an economic issue and a matter of enforcing existing laws that are being watered down and not enforced. Yet you all seem to automatically jump the gun and make it a racial issue right off the bat. It just seems like a cheap cop-out for people that have no other decent argument other than scream racist when they disagree with someone.

Actually, you were the first to bring up race. And when those that truly try to engage you ignore their questions and play the race card.


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Old 08-01-2014, 08:30 PM   #53
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Illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy | TheHill It's too bad that even unskilled illegal immigrants benefit the economy.


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This response in the comments pretty much sums it up:

"What a load of digested bull food. Illegals constitute 5.2% of the workforce, have very low paying jobs, but contribute 10% of payments to social security? That is utterly unbelievable. They contribute more than they take? Ask California, where high concentrations of illegals cost the state over $8 billion a year, AFTER considering their contributions.
324,000 births to illegals at an average cost of $25,000. How is someone making $20,000 a year with no insurance going to pay for that? They aren't, we will.
8 million school age kids of illegals, at $10,000/yr to educate, cost americans $80 billion a year; how many illegals own property? Or could?
8 million illegals working in the US, and the benefit is that they keep wages low?? Aren't we trying to increase the min wage? The best possible way to do that would be to deport 8 million illegal workers. Our unemployment would get very low indeed. Yes, some things would cost more. They will anyway once these illegals are granted amnesty, you have to know they will join unions go on strike and wages will double anyway."
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:40 PM   #54
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Actually, you were the first to bring up race. And when those that truly try to engage you ignore their questions and play the race card.


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It's just unfortunate that so many people who scream the loudest about it basically have to sound racist

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The rape/violence/disease/blahblahblah shit is one of my favourite straw men. I always forget that white people have never committed any crimes or been sick.


Yeah cause these posts aren't about race at all.

The crack about "white privilege" in the initial post just confirms what happened in this forum afterwards. I debated with someone of leftish politics the fact that why should illegal immigrants get free tuition and government services when I (and many other US Citizens and even legal immigrants) put myself though college and had to work to do it, and their response was "well you have white privilege and they don't."

Kind of like the responses above.....
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:00 PM   #55
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Beneath bigjohn's belligerent, semi-racist rhetoric lies a point worth at least considering.

Immigration of all stripes is likely an economic boon in the long run. In the short run, the picture is a lot less clear. I tend to be skeptical of the "taking r jarbs" argument (see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labor ), although I don't want to dismiss it entirely as an argument. (As an aside, that issue is effectively the same issue as job outsourcing, and I find it funny that liberals and conservatives each tend to favor limiting one but not the other.) The government budgetary issue is a significant one, and it's certainly noticeable in places like here in California. The most likely effective to make immigrants (of any variety) progress to highest levels of economic well being is to spend a lot of money on education and whatnot. But is it America's ethical burden to provide that support? That goes above my pay grade.


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Old 08-01-2014, 09:05 PM   #56
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http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cos...al-immigrants/ The cost of illegal immigration to government budgets is debated, but is likely far more modest than the numbers trotted out by anti-immigration activist. Based on the cost-benefit analysis, one could make the argument that we should deport lower income Americans because they cost money. But we don't because we're a humane and caring country, even though some of our citizens don't want us to be. Illegal immigrants provide a boost to the economy and entire industries such as agriculture are dependent on immigrant labor. To simply deport them all would be very bad for our economy.


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Old 08-01-2014, 09:15 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post


Yeah cause these posts aren't about race at all.

The crack about "white privilege" in the initial post just confirms what happened in this forum afterwards. I debated with someone of leftish politics the fact that why should illegal immigrants get free tuition and government services when I (and many other US Citizens and even legal immigrants) put myself though college and had to work to do it, and their response was "well you have white privilege and they don't."

Kind of like the responses above.....

The reason you can't ever have a civil debate in here(besides your own anger issues) is not because you're outnumbered it's because you generalize all on the views of one, and you never allow for an answer you assume the answer and apply it to others.


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Old 08-01-2014, 09:17 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Most of the immigrants who are currently coming to America are Hispanic/Latino. You insinuated that all illegal immigrants were rapists, murderers, and criminals while also insinuating that they are all carrying diseases. That's racist.


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Wrong.

The person I responded to insinuated that they wanted NO immigration law at all and ANYONE should be allowed to come as they please. If ANYONE could come as they please there would bound to be SOME murderers, rapists, and criminals or people with diseases that would cause health issues making their way in without immigration laws to filter them out. In no way did I insinuate ALL illegal immigrants are rapists etc.

I would've thought that was obvious, but then again when people jump the gun and cry racism, I guess every little detail needs to be spoon-fed.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:22 PM   #59
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(besides your own anger issues)
Anger? This is just a place to come on once in a blue moon (since U2 take half a decade to make a decent album, and I use the term 'decent' loosely unfortunately) to stir the pot so to speak. I wouldn't call it trolling because my views (or what you call ranting and raving) are somewhat accurate in what I post, however the discussion is more interesting (and amusing) to me when things are somewhat "belligerent", especially knowing full well what the politics of the forum tend to be.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:24 PM   #60
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Beneath bigjohn's belligerent, semi-racist rhetoric lies a point worth at least considering.

Immigration of all stripes is likely an economic boon in the long run. In the short run, the picture is a lot less clear. I tend to be skeptical of the "taking r jarbs" argument (see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labor ), although I don't want to dismiss it entirely as an argument. (As an aside, that issue is effectively the same issue as job outsourcing, and I find it funny that liberals and conservatives each tend to favor limiting one but not the other.) The government budgetary issue is a significant one, and it's certainly noticeable in places like here in California. The most likely effective to make immigrants (of any variety) progress to highest levels of economic well being is to spend a lot of money on education and whatnot. But is it America's ethical burden to provide that support? That goes above my pay grade.


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Yeah, it's a shame too, because there could have been a real discussion. And needs to be.

This is a very complicated issue, and no one on any side seems to want to really discuss it.

There's a moral issue here.
There's a safety issue here.
There's an economic issue here.(both ways, the who pays for this and the rise of goods and services when farm and hospitality labor has to go legitimate)

Is there a race issue here? Absolutely, but both sides hide behind it.


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