IMF Head Dominique Strauss Kahn held on attempted rape charges - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-22-2011, 03:06 PM   #16
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Is there another word that can be used for rape? Maybe 'unwanted agrression'. It seems that the word rape is really strong in this case.

What bothers me about cases such as this is that so much of his lifes work is destroyed by this case. He may be doing really valid things in the world and they are slighted because of this. Not that I am condonning his behaviour.
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:35 PM   #17
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mama cass are you in France?
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:40 PM   #18
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He may be doing really valid things in the world and they are slighted because of this.
He was head of the IMF so don't worry about that.
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:42 PM   #19
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mama cass are you in France?
hi canedge, yep, i am
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:48 PM   #20
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where. cities or countryside?
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:58 PM   #21
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what do they think about this issue in France?
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:21 PM   #22
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according to the press, people have been extremely shocked and in denial, especially as DSK was tipped to be the great hope for the Socialist party, and was expected to announce he would be running in the French presidential elections next year... so yeah, it is a massive blow to the Socialist party as, whether he is innocent or guilty, his political career is basically over anyway...

obviously there's the whole "innocent til proven guilty" thing, not to mention loads of conspiracy theories (stitch-up by Sarkozy, etc.), there have been rumours of alleged predatory sexual behaviour in the past, and there have been some horrible flippant comments from DSK's supporters which are just patronising and offensive to women in general... the upper echelons of French society are notoriously sexist and chauvinistic, sadly...
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:31 PM   #23
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Is there another word that can be used for rape? Maybe 'unwanted agrression'. It seems that the word rape is really strong in this case.

What bothers me about cases such as this is that so much of his lifes work is destroyed by this case. He may be doing really valid things in the world and they are slighted because of this. Not that I am condonning his behaviour.
No. If the charges do in fact include "forced oral sex" as it states in the story linked in the first post, that is still rape.

And as for your second paragraph, then maybe he (allegedly) should have thought of that before (allegedly) raping this woman.

The good things he's done in the world won't be undone by this. They'll still have happened. And there will be other people who will still be able to do good things. ".... but he's done a lot of good" should not enter into this conversation at all.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:56 PM   #24
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^ Actually, in New York rape specifically means non-consensual intercourse. Non-consensual oral sex would be a "criminal sexual act." DSK is being accused of (among other things) attempted rape.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:58 PM   #25
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Oh, okay. Thanks for clarifying. I was hoping this wasn't going to turn into one of those Whoopi Goldberg "rape-rape" things, but I didn't know there was a legal definition of one over the other.

Which is kind of a shame, because I think most women would still consider themselves as having been raped. And then to have someone - including the law - "well, it wasn't really rape" is a bit of insult to injury.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:13 PM   #26
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In NY "rape," "criminal sexual acts" and "sodomy" (anal rape) are all class B felonies, meaning they all carry a penalty of up to 25 years in prison, depending on the usual factors (prior criminal record, level of violence involved, etc.). I don't disagree with your basic point, but they do have to draw distinctions somewhere when defining various forms of sexual assault, and it's just the nature of these kinds of crimes that one can't generalize and say, "Trauma to the victim from offense type X is more/less than that from offense type Y."
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #27
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I have to agree with that - the law has to be very specific for a multitude of reasons.

I was more reacting to the two poins in canedge's post. While it turns out that yes, "rape" in this case may be too strong a word because of that legal definition in NY, the way I read it, that's not what he was saying.

Apologies if I misread the intent of that statement, but combined with the part about his "good work," it read to me like you felt that overall this seemed "overblown" or "unfair."
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:27 PM   #28
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Yeah, I agree; even under the NY definitions, either he *attempted* to rape her (as is charged, in addition to the forced oral sex and groping) or he didn't. And if he did, well, that act is what it is; it's not just generic "aggression," but a specific criminal offense.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:06 PM   #29
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Is there another word that can be used for rape? Maybe 'unwanted agrression'. It seems that the word rape is really strong in this case.

What bothers me about cases such as this is that so much of his lifes work is destroyed by this case. He may be doing really valid things in the world and they are slighted because of this. Not that I am condonning his behaviour.
I think his life's work is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he cleans toilets or if he's the Pope, a crime is a crime and he should not be looked upon any more favorably than anyone else because of his 'valid work'. That's quite an elitist view, if you don't mind me saying.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:15 PM   #30
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yeah, seems like it's DSK himself is who may have destroyed his life's work, not "this incident."

this is a criminal case, nothing at all like most political affairs (like Clinton-Lewinsky) which i agree have no bearing at all on one's ability to perform a job, at least insofar as they are not engaging in outright gross hypocrisy when it comes to policy (like Gingrich) or actively harming a community they've politically demonized and sought to punish and destroy (like closeted Republicans).

of course, if he's innocent and this was some elaborate set-up, i might be inclined to agree that it's a tragedy, and yes, he is innocent until proven guilty. but, at the moment, doesn't seem to look good ...
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