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Old 06-23-2012, 11:38 PM   #46
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:47 PM   #47
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:51 PM   #48
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I am actually pretty conservative when it comes to illegal immigration. I see no reason to oppose stronger measures to control illegal immigration.

However, I rarely find an opportunity to express my support because the tone of so many of the proponents of stronger measures is so repugnant.

Your post isn't exactly repugnant but it seems lacking in compassion. It's one thing of this guy came over of his own free will and then proceeded to live a life of lies so he could stay. What was missing from your post--what would have made me buy it--was "If it were me, when I found out I was illegally in the country and was old enough to do something about it the first thing I would do, is get a ticket back to the Philippines. I know it would be hard to say goodbye to my friends, family, and life here in America knowing that I'll likely never come back. But it's far more important that I follow the law and not take jobs from the Americans who are actually supposed to be here. I would figure things out in the Philippines and hey, there's always Skype too!"

If you'd said that, well, okay. Maybe I can buy a hardline stance.

It's interesting, because Vargas actually more or less made the choice I described above when he decided to go public with his immigration status. He's actually approached the ICE because he expected that with all the publicity they must surely be planning to deport him. But they told him that they actually have no record of his existence and so can't/won't do anything about him.

But I'm guessing if you were in his shoes you would have taken the onus on yourself and left voluntarily, right?
You say Indy500's post is borderline repugnant and lacking in compassion. If what you say is true - if you genuinely are a conservative on immigration issues but are not prepared to advocate for it on the forum - then your post is something worse - plain cowardly and vacillating.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:53 PM   #49
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And don't forget Mexico, with a projected per capita income of about $63,000 by the end of 2050, compared to the current one being about $16K.
In spite of the drug trade related violence, Mexico has kicked the US's arse in recent years on the economy front:-

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The drug wars are taking place against the backdrop of an economy that has responded robustly to the global crisis. Mexico is becoming a manufacturing powerhouse at a time of vindication for those countries that kept or developed their industrial bases, unlike its crisis-ridden giant northern neighbour. Its aeronautical and auto industries have helped propel growth rates since the crisis of 2008 and recession in 2009, with manufactured goods accounting for 84% of exports. Mexico aims for trade to account for 85% of GDP by 2017.
Mexico elections: failure of drugs war leaves nation at the crossroads | World news | The Observer
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #50
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You say Indy500's post is borderline repugnant and lacking in compassion. If what you say is true - if you genuinely are a conservative on immigration issues but are not prepared to advocate for it on the forum - then your post is something worse - plain cowardly and vacillating.
Seriously? What is your problem? Did you just completely misunderstand his entire post, or are you just going for full on attack trolling mode? There was absolutely no need for this.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:13 PM   #51
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So he lied to take the slot in journalism school from an American student.
He lied to take a newspaper job from an American worker.
I've been thinking about this for a few days because it's bothering me. I find it interesting that you didn't say that he took a spot in school or a job from somebody in the US legally, but from an "American". Makes me wonder whether you distinguish, perhaps subconsciously, between "real" Americans and immigrants who may have a green card or are naturalized citizens, for example.

I ask because I have found this attitude on occasion (in Canada, the beacon of immigration policies, so they say). I actually found it astounding that somebody would say to my face that "those people" are taking jobs or spots in universities because their parents force them to study more, etc. Like, hello, you're talking to one of THOSE people. Ridiculous.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:04 PM   #52
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I've been thinking about this for a few days because it's bothering me. I find it interesting that you didn't say that he took a spot in school or a job from somebody in the US legally, but from an "American". Makes me wonder whether you distinguish, perhaps subconsciously, between "real" Americans and immigrants who may have a green card or are naturalized citizens, for example.

I ask because I have found this attitude on occasion (in Canada, the beacon of immigration policies, so they say). I actually found it astounding that somebody would say to my face that "those people" are taking jobs or spots in universities because their parents force them to study more, etc. Like, hello, you're talking to one of THOSE people. Ridiculous.
It's ridiculous that you don't even try to understand opposing views. What part of ILLEGAL immigrants don't you understand. "THOSE PEOPLE" are not neutralized citizens, those on visas, those with green cards, exchange students or Irish musicians on tour in America.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:20 PM   #53
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It's ridiculous that you don't even try to understand opposing views. What part of ILLEGAL immigrants don't you understand. "THOSE PEOPLE" are not neutralized citizens, those on visas, those with green cards, exchange students or Irish musicians on tour in America.
Calm yourself.

The reason I asked you is because I didn't know what you meant. If I didn't want to understand what you meant, I wouldn't have asked you to clarify.

As for the "those people" comment, I wasn't even talking about you, but giving you an example of what I have personally encountered and yes, I was most certainly a citizen by then. Doesn't mean that ignorant people won't say it.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:35 PM   #54
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I'm surprised that this statement would come off from a person like you.
I was trying to pull a Deep there. . .guess it didn't work. . .

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You say Indy500's post is borderline repugnant and lacking in compassion. If what you say is true - if you genuinely are a conservative on immigration issues but are not prepared to advocate for it on the forum - then your post is something worse - plain cowardly and vacillating.
Them's fightin' words, fella.

:kicks over bar-room table:

Seriously, though:

I did not say his post was borderline repugnant. That was your rephrasing of what I said.

I did say that his post lacked compassion. I stand by that.

I am fully prepared to advocate for enforcing immigration law. That does not mean I need to voice support sentiments like the ones INDY has expressed.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by INDY500

It's ridiculous that you don't even try to understand opposing views. What part of ILLEGAL immigrants don't you understand. "THOSE PEOPLE" are not neutralized citizens, those on visas, those with green cards, exchange students or Irish musicians on tour in America.
How would you feel about significantly relaxing legal immigration laws (obviously without allowing criminals in), and allowing far more Mexicans to take jobs from Real Americans than do now?
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:20 PM   #56
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The SCOTUS struck down most of the Arizona SB1070 law including provisions that made it a crime for immigrants without work permits to seek employment, to fail to carry registration documents and provisions authorizing the police to arrest any immigrant that they believe has committed a deportable offence. What remains are the provisions allowing the police to demand papers of individuals who have been pulled over for some other violation.

Meanwhile in Canada, the federal government has introduced the Faster Removal of Foreign Criminals Act, which grants broad discretionary powers on the immigration minister to deny temporary-resident status to immigrants based on public policy considerations. But the main point of the bill is to lower the deportation bar such that immigrants who have been sentenced to less than 6 months can use the immigration appeals process (currently it's 2 years), while the rest would be subject to swift deportation. It's actually a very sensible policy insofar as deportation is concerned. I always worry when broad discretionary powers are bestowed on public officials (it invites subjectivity) but I haven't read the bill yet so I'm not sure how I'd feel about the non-deportation provisions without seeing them.
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