If one's race truly isn't an issue.... - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2009, 07:26 PM   #76
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,337
Local Time: 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post

Exactly! That wasn't all that long ago. And it's proudly written up in the local newspaper.
__________________

__________________
martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 08:36 PM   #77
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Wasn't this a reference to some 60's era saying or something. Everybody seemed to laugh along knowingly when he said this?
It's from what we always called the Get Back Blues. I'm not sure whose song it is or if it even has any one author, and that might not be the 'real' title either, but yeah, Lowery opened his benediction by quoting Lift Every Voice And Sing then closed it by quoting the Get Back Blues. Both songs you heard a lot during the Civil Rights Movement, which Lowery was one of the heroes of, he led the Montgomery bus boycott and was one of the Selma march leaders. Now I want you to tell me, / Brother what you gonna do about old Jim Crow? / Now if you was white, should be all right / If you was brown, could stick around / But if you black, mmm brother, get back get back... So he tinkered with it a little obviously, and at worst I could say it maybe came off a touch schlocky (really now, 'mellow yellow'?), but it was all so much a part of the historic weight of the moment--this 87-year-old civil rights veteran in the winter of his life, standing on the Washington Mall with well over a million Americans of every color and creed gathered around in the freezing cold, having survived long enough to witness the day as a younger black man of a different generation, standing straight and proud and grave and humbled all at once, accepts before everyone the awesome responsibility of having been the one chosen to lead us forward through some very difficult times. That was a huge moment, it will live on in history as a huge moment, even as said difficulties press right on and doubtless no one present, least of all Obama, forgot for an instant they were there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
So does the fear that the more and more
the "other" is included, the more we will be excluded. That there is not enough to go around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
For African Americans it's a monumental moment of recognition and acceptance and for white Americans it represents a monumental shift in their collective capacity to understand and accept others. Both are worthy of one helluva party!
I think these posts get to the heart of it. Recognizing what a wonderful thing it is that this particular door has now been opened to African-Americans, and the potential the highly visible office it comes with has to help further open people's eyes to the potential in everyone...yes of course that also means recognizing why it's taken so long for this to happen--this isn't just about Barack Obama, it's about all of us. And that's something to celebrate! It's not something for anyone to feel defensive or slighted or suspicious over. Justice isn't about helpless victims and irredeemable oppressors and taking sides 'against' people, it's a much bigger dream than that, it's human beings recognizing each other and understanding where each other are coming from and working together to build the kind of society that won't be forgetful of anyone's humanity. But you don't get there by meditating abstractly on how all people are really the same underneath etc. etc., you have to get out there and listen and act and interact and be willing to take a little resentment or defensiveness on the chin sometimes and still keep going. And to have respect for community and how much that means to people, too--how much it hurts when people whose experiences one can really relate to are suffering, how exhilarating it feels when something wonderful for the community happens--without feeling jealous on account of the ties you also share with them. Maybe this is part of the issue; that there isn't a 'white community' in this country in the way there is a black or a gay or a Latino community, and that sometimes this absence is wrongly assumed to be a symptom of enlightenment or progress or just in general a 'way any reasonable person ought to be', when the truth is there never was any such community to begin with, because in this country white people---qua white people, anyhow--have never had to put aside their differences and organize collectively in the face of a common set of problems. Not that a shared legacy of adversities is all there is to a community, it's often also an affinity for a distinct subculture and all that, but it's the legacy of adversities part that makes these issues charged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2isthebest View Post
However, I stand by my assertion that people who have strong feelings of racism (or any sort of discriminatory feelings based on gender, religion, sexual orientation, socioeconomic background etc.), lack intelligence. There is no way that any truly intelligent human being could believe that something like the color of one's skin makes them inferior to another person or group of people. I'm not even necessarily talking about people that lack education. There are people with Ph.D's that are horribly racist, and people who have an 8th grade education that aren't. Although, I think it's hard to dispute that lack of education generally makes it more likely for one to hold on to feelings of racism or discrimination. It's also not too presumptive to say that there are a lot of people, especially in the South, who were born into unfortunate socioeconomic circumstances and generations of racism and who haven't had the chance to experience a broader education and view of the world that would lead them to re-examine what they've been taught about race. Once one becomes an adult, though, I don't think there's any excuse to hold onto racist feelings.
Well, I certainly agree with that last part. I don't really agree that intelligence, as in IQ, has much to do with it though. Racism isn't primarily an intellectual proposition, it's a socially and psychologically ingrained habit of mind where received negative assumptions about some collective a person belongs to dominate your perceptions of them, whether you consciously believe those assumptions or not. You can intellectualize your way out of that habit to a point, and yeah education can be a big help with that, but to finish the job you'll have to redirect some of your emotional allegiances too, which is really not something introspection or critical thinking can do for you. And the more segregated your lifestyle and your community is, the harder that's going to be to do. Simply recoiling at people in your own community who are overtly racist isn't enough.

Concerning the role of regional histories specifically in this, I'll just add that when you routinely choose the most stereotypically, (supposedly) familiar and glaring examples of racism in order to illustrate your point, you run the risk of playing into the hands of people who are inclined to dismiss all claims that they've got some blind spots of their own to address, because after all "I'm obviously not some inbred, coarse, stupid, violent trash 'like those people down there' and how dare you suggest I am."
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 11:08 PM   #78
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Of course we should judge Obama on performance alone...

But that being said, that article is full of shit in a lot of areas and Juan Williams has had a little bit of his own controversy in his lifetime regarding race.
Yeah there's some sexism in the background but not much different that Billy boy.
__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 10:38 PM   #79
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
ylimeU2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,471
Local Time: 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by October1977 View Post
ylimeu2, I actually liked your original response best of all. Being able to appreciate the events of today, without perhaps, truly understanding every aspect of it. My point in responding the way I did to Martha was only to say I have talked with people and have been out of "the bubble" for a while and in doing so fell in to the usual problem with these types of conversations - that they inevitably become about us...what I mean by that is we lose focus and then begin to judge each other and yes, I'm just as guilty. I should have perhaps rephrased my original question to say, at what point do we say that race is no longer in issue....and can we as long as it is constantly being made an issue? Racists will always be among us...but when do we as a nation say, "The wounds are healed. It's not an issue. I'm American. I'm human. Nothing more and nothing less."? The sensationalists on the news, for instance, won't allow it. It's unfortuneate. Agree or disagree?
I don't come here a lot these days, so pardon my late response.

I disagree. The sensationalism will pass and in time, I think people will stop calling attention to it and simply accept it. But, you are right, it is there. But, the media blows everything out of proportion. This is where it is up to us, as individuals, to wade through the BS and decide for ourselves.

I think Obama will bring about healing the "wounds". He gives people hope for many, many different things. And healing those wounds is among those hopes. Exposure to things is the best teacher. And seeing him in office may very well bring people around to realizing that the color of his skin doesn't matter at all.

Racism is still very, very much alive in this country. People have been oppressed for far too long, while others have lived in ignorance for far too long. I really do believe Obama will inspire both the oppressed and the oppressors. My own grandmother made the comment once that she doesn't like black people "because they smell". And at 89 years old, she is finally starting to question the ideas she was raised with. I think we will see more of that in the years to come. I'm not naive enough to think racism will go away completely, but I think it is on its way out.
__________________
ylimeU2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 10:41 AM   #80
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
MrPryck2U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Long Island, NY, USA, Earth
Posts: 8,953
Local Time: 11:40 AM

Obama's only half black. His mother is white and his father really wasn't around for him, so you could almost say that he was raised "white".

But, I believe it's tougher to be bi-racial in the US then it is to even be black because then you have two races who might have a tough time accepting you.

For most of the 232 years of America's existence, black Americans haven't exactly been treated the greatest, so it is kind of important that a person of color be elected president of the US.
__________________
MrPryck2U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 01:54 PM   #81
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPryck2U View Post
Obama's only half black. His mother is white and his father really wasn't around for him, so you could almost say that he was raised "white".


but this doesn't help you catch a cab in the Bronx.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 03:56 PM   #82
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:40 AM
that "catching a cab" thing

really is rather silly

if that is the only time Obama is reminded he is a black man

__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #83
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
that "catching a cab" thing

really is rather silly

if that is the only time Obama is reminded he is a black man



i suppose these are things you don't have to worry about.

how do you think i feel at the hyper-capitalistic orgy of heterosexuality we call Valentine's Day?

a bit like a Jew at Christmas, perhaps.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:08 PM   #84
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i suppose these are things you don't have to worry about.

how do you think i feel at the hyper-capitalistic orgy of heterosexuality we call Valentine's Day?

a bit like a Jew at Christmas, perhaps.
you should enjoy V Day
you have a boyfriend.

most of my Jewish friends seem to rather enjoy Christmas


as for not being picked up by a cab?

well, most cabbies these days won't pick up a person with a dog, even seeing-eye, and many will not pick a person with liquor

I'd say Obama had a much different life experience than Michelle growing up on the eastside? of Chicago.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:14 PM   #85
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
you should enjoy V Day
you have a boyfriend.

it's hard to find a gay valentine's day card.

so we usually buy either a super-religious card or maybe a barbie or tinkerbell card. and then we get Popeye's and eat chocolate. because V-Day is a made-up holiday.


Quote:
well, most cabbies these days won't pick up a person with a dog, even seeing-eye, and many will not pick a person with liquor

most cabbies seem really eager to pick me up. i wonder why.


Quote:
I'd say Obama had a much different life experience than Michelle growing up on the eastside? of Chicago.

different experience, yes, but you really should read Dreams From My Father. it's actually quite good, and i can't think that being cosmetically african-american yet having a white mother and white grandparents and a half-asian sister didn't feed into his racial self-understanding.

what i do think is important here is that while it is true that Barack, unlike Michelle, is not a descendant of slaves, he was born into a world where he was affected by that historical residue, and had no choice about that.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:21 PM   #86
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 11:40 AM
UPDATE: "Drunken Negro Face" Cookies On Sale at Greenwich Village Bakery - Gothamist: New York City News, Food, Arts & Events
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:38 PM   #87
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Se7en's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: all around in the dark - everywhere
Posts: 3,531
Local Time: 11:40 AM
Kefalinos insists he can't be racist because, for one thing, "my brother-in-law, he's Cuban."

classic.
__________________
Se7en is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 05:29 PM   #88
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2isthebest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vision over visibility....
Posts: 12,332
Local Time: 12:40 PM
Ah, so apparently this man wants me to come to New York City to punch him the face. That's perfect. I've been looking for an excuse to justify a trip to NYC. Thanks, dickhead! Enjoy your well-deserved ass-kicking!
__________________
U2isthebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 06:17 PM   #89
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 10:40 AM
I really think it's a shame that the two posters who made race threads this week never returned to really discuss the issue...
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 08:17 AM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:40 AM
Unbelievable.
__________________

__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com