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Old 01-20-2009, 10:54 PM   #31
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first, I think you have been posting in here long enough to have seen me post more than once that I believe race to be towards the top of the list of things that are still a problem in this country.
I should, you're right, but you can be hard to read at times.



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second, I did find it odd that u2best was making an argument against racism,
(having a bias against members of a race) by showing bias towards the citizens of Mississippi.
I understand.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #32
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I'm proud to say that I don't see his race, I see him as a true leader and someone who is willing to put himself out there and bring about real change. But I grew up in a white middle class family and I have never experienced judgment based on the color of my skin.

So, when I hear people of different races talking about how inspiring it is to see him elected despite his race, when I hear vetrens of wars America has fought in being sent to the front lines to die first talking about how they never thought they would see this day, when I see a local boy on the news saying that Martin Luther King, Jr walked so that Obama could run, I am inclined to believe them...the ones who have faced judgement and hatred based on race, when they say it is still an issue.

I can't walk a mile in their shoes. Hell, I can't even take a step. I don't know, but I'll accept that it is important, even if I can't fully comprehend why.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:01 PM   #33
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Your wide-eyed insistence that race doesn't matter indicates that either that I'm right, you weren't paying attention, or you just like things happy and smiley.
Life isn't happy and smiley. I've seen the depths of hell in the eyes of the AIDS victim, blind from his illness, and I've wiped the tears of the transgendered on the streetcorner wondering how God views them. I've put my arm around the forgotten veteran addicted to drugs and I've given a piece of candy to some of the poorest kids in the nation, not to mention the world. Not to mention my own battles. My being white, and their being black, hispanic, vietnamese, white or other didn't exactly matter. What mattered is that I was paying attention to everything but their race. Those who care about race are those who can afford to care. But this isn't about me. The premise of the question is philosophical. Wasn't the civil rights struggle so that it wouldn't matter at all?
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:08 PM   #34
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Life isn't happy and smiley. I've seen the depths of hell in the eyes of the AIDS victim, blind from his illness, and I've wiped the tears of the transgendered on the streetcorner wondering how God views them. I've put my arm around the forgotten veteran addicted to drugs and I've given a piece of candy to some of the poorest kids in the nation, not to mention the world. Not to mention my own battles. My being white, and their being black, hispanic, vietnamese, white or other didn't exactly matter. What mattered is that I was paying attention to everything but their race. Those who care about race are those who can afford to care. But this isn't about me. The premise of the question is philosophical. The civil rights struggle - was it to become equal to or better than? If equal to than shouldn't that mean not bringing it up at all? If better than...well, that answers the question in itself.
It should...but it doesn't make it a fact. Do you have AIDS? Are you blind? Do you cry tears over your sexuality? Are you addicted to drugs? Are you so poor or have you ever been so poor that you couldn't afford food? Do you understand what it feels like to live with any of these situations? You can help, you can be compassionate, but to ignore that these people face prejudices and hatred because of what they face is almost just as bad as hating them for it.

Yes, it sucks, but it exists. Trying to deny it is just as bad as judging someone for it.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:18 PM   #35
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I think you're confusing yourself.

Race is an issue. It's always been an issue, and it will probably be a decent amount of time more before it ceases to be an issue.

The point made over and over again is that it shouldn't be an issue. But it is, and everyone knows it. This is another step in the right direction, the right direction being the end of race as an issue. But we're not there yet, which is why Barack Obama's presidency is celebrated. Because it's a step towards a goal.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:22 PM   #36
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It should...but it doesn't make it a fact. Do you have AIDS? Are you blind? Do you cry tears over your sexuality? Are you addicted to drugs? Are you so poor or have you ever been so poor that you couldn't afford food? Do you understand what it feels like to live with any of these situations? You can help, you can be compassionate, but to ignore that these people face prejudices and hatred because of what they face is almost just as bad as hating them for it.

Yes, it sucks, but it exists. Trying to deny it is just as bad as judging someone for it.
ylimeu2, I actually liked your original response best of all. Being able to appreciate the events of today, without perhaps, truly understanding every aspect of it. My point in responding the way I did to Martha was only to say I have talked with people and have been out of "the bubble" for a while and in doing so fell in to the usual problem with these types of conversations - that they inevitably become about us...what I mean by that is we lose focus and then begin to judge each other and yes, I'm just as guilty. I should have perhaps rephrased my original question to say, at what point do we say that race is no longer in issue....and can we as long as it is constantly being made an issue? Racists will always be among us...but when do we as a nation say, "The wounds are healed. It's not an issue. I'm American. I'm human. Nothing more and nothing less."? The sensationalists on the news, for instance, won't allow it. It's unfortuneate. Agree or disagree?
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:54 PM   #37
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I should have perhaps rephrased my original question to say, at what point do we say that race is no longer in issue....and can we as long as it is constantly being made an issue? Racists will always be among us...but when do we as a nation say, "The wounds are healed. It's not an issue. I'm American. I'm human. Nothing more and nothing less."? The sensationalists on the news, for instance, won't allow it. It's unfortuneate. Agree or disagree?

This sounds much more like a real question that can be discussed, not the smug non-question that was originally asked.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:12 AM   #38
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Racism isn't dead. It isn't even dead in "mainstream" America. I could show you many of examples of racism in FYM, on talk shows, everyday life, etc...

There will always be racism, but until the day that it only exists in fringe elements, elements that will be rejected by all political sides and all walks of life, days like this WILL matter.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:18 AM   #39
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Could we maybe clarify what specific kinds of statements and actions have given the impressions of "sensationalism" and "bitterness against white people"?
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:22 AM   #40
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Are there people in Mississippi that have an IQ over 35? If so, I'd like to meet one.
I'm waiting. . .just waiting for a certain mod who has one of the most brilliant minds of anyone I've encountered and who ALSO happens to be from Mississipi to come in here refute this shameful stereotype. . . But I don't think she will, as she has too much class to even take it seriously.

U2isthebest, you know I you, but I'm really surprised by this statement. Should we just chalk it up to "I'm allowed to put down 'my people' but you can't?"

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This sounds much more like a real question that can be discussed, not the smug non-question that was originally asked.
I think we're being really unfair to October1977. This person, whoever he or she is, has got what 14 posts total all together on Interference, and has done nothing but behave in a respectful and sincere manner (even if the question they raised was perhaps poorly rephrased and awfully easy to refute). I don't think this poster is have ever been smug in anything they've said so far. There is nothing to indicate that this person is a troll or trying to stir shit up as far as I can tell.

And I'm a black man, so if anyone has the so-called "right" to be offended it would be. I just happen to believe there are good people out there with bad or misguided ideas. This seems to be the case here.

Come on, folks, don't scare October off before they've even had a chance to get started.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:24 AM   #41
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Could we maybe clarify what specific kinds of statements and actions have given the impressions of "sensationalism" and "bitterness against white people"?

See what I mean. Not a word.

talk about class.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:33 AM   #42
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In response to the original post, I find this kind of sentiment common among many of the white people that I know.

It's like, "Well, crap, I'M not racist. I don't see skin color--segregation, slavery etc is over now. Can't we just forget about all that now and pretedt like it never happened. We know it was wrong and bad but it wasn't met that had slaves or supported Jim Crow, so can we just not hear about any more and move on!"

What this viewpoint fails to recognize is that wounds, the consequences of systemic racism don't heal overnight, that it will be generations before we truly move past all of this. You see it's easy for white folks to "move on" because after all discrimination never really cost them anything, at least by comparison. People of color are still working out the costs of our history. Just listen to wildhoney's black students: "We got a nigga in the white house." This shit is complicated, people.

But the fact that a black man is now president shows that we are making progress towards the day when race truly won't matter, and that we are moving faster than we might have thought since most blacks (myself included) didn't think we'd see it in our lifetimes. It is definitely cause for celebration.

Right now, I live in a place where race (well, at least mine anyways) truly doesn't matter and I can't tell you how wonderful it is. I can also tell you that we have not yet reached that place in America (Obama's achievement not withstanding) and I dread having to move back there this summer for that reason.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:41 AM   #43
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This sounds much more like a real question that can be discussed, not the smug non-question that was originally asked.
I honestly don't know how to take you. Smug, huh? I may have revised my question but I still think the original stands.

Dr. Lowery ended his bendiction today with, "Lord...we ask you to help us work for that day when....white will embrace what is right." Are you telling me race wasn't brought to the forefront or that wasn't a racist, bitter comment? Are you telling me it wasn't made an issue? Are you telling me the fight for equality was fought and won so that we just continue to segregate people as "the first black...." anything? Isn't that a form of segregation? Is it smug for me to ask, "I thought it wasn't to be made an issue...so why are they making it an issue?" The responses for the most part have picked apart whether racism exists or not. Of course it does and I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't. But by and large, this is a country that would like to get past the struggles of the past. At what point will leadership (news, Senators, whoever it is in the public light) allow us to? I'm asking in general, not necessarily in defense.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:51 AM   #44
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^I believe I addressed your question, October1977. What say you?
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #45
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Look, to be honest, I knew this would stir things up. I've read all of your responses and I don't feel offended or feel the need to defend myself. It's a sensitive subject to say the least. Just know that I personally choose to rid myself of those people who I know are racist. I know those people exist. I also know black people who are racists who I've chosen not to associate with as well. I'm not as naive as my attempt to be humble would lead you to believe. I'm very aware of the evil root of hatred in this country. And I believe those people need to be dealt with legally and if not in this life they will in the after. But, as you can tell, I communicate much better in person. If you were sitting in front of me over a beer or glass of tea it would have been a friendly conversation among friends...or future friends. It is a complicated issue. And while I truly appreciate the weight of today's events, the issue of race will never go away unless we ignore it. Period. I don't mean ignore the pain that was caused. I don't mean denying that wrong doings happened. I mean, no longer viewing anyone as anything but human.

The day after, November 5th, I'm sitting there at a gas station pumping gas and the black woman pumping gas across from me is staring me down, looking at me up and down, saying, "Obama!" with the most venomous look I've ever seen. I'm sitting there, thinking, "I shed a tear last night when Obama gave his exceptance speech. This lady doesn't know me at all. I was truly moved and I didn't even vote for the guy." The bottom line is, when will it end? That is my question. When will the price be paid for my ancestor's wrong doings? When will race not be important? Again, when the rubber meets the road, and you're standing in front of a person that is truly in need, or when you're truly in need like I've been many times...race doesn't matter. It truly doesn't. I just wish it would go away entirely. Does the economy care that this guy is black? Does the war in Iraq care? So, wouldn't we prefer that his qualifications to help strengthen this beautiful country of ours vindicate all of us rather than just his being black vindicate other blacks who still have pain in their hearts? Why segregate the meaning of this historic day? Why would it mean more to you as a black person than it does me as a white person?

Again, I say all of this with the deepest respect.

Edit: maycocksean, I read your post after responding here. I understand, even if not experienced firsthand, that the wounds won't heal overnight. I don't mean to be obtuse or naive. I feel like I'm going out on a limb to even admit in a forum that this question rolls around in my head. But we won't get anywhere unless we talk.
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