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Old 12-10-2008, 11:38 PM   #16
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Men who are secure enough to actively stand up for the rights of others are incredibly attractive.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:19 AM   #17
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^ Third that.

Also Russell Crowe and Daniel Day Lewis have played gay men on screen, with lots and lots of pashing involved, in The Sum of Us and My Beautiful Laundrette respectively, and I don't remember so much controversy in these cases. Maybe because neither was a big star and both movies were more arthouse than commercial.

*damn, Daniel Day Lewis was incredibly hot in Laundrette especially in the pashing scenes...
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:40 PM   #18
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^^ 4th 5th and 6th it . . . maybe I missed something but I was really annoyed with Letterman during that interview posted a wee bit back . . . focus on the story bud & stop fricking trivialising. . . he came across as out of touch and ever so slightly homophobic . . .

^ think you are spot on there - both films were made before the 'stars' had hit the acting stratosphere . . . thought both films were absolutely gorgeous
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:57 PM   #19
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Remember that "gay couple needs to kiss more"? Looks like P&G went all the way there..almost

dailybeast.com

The Gays Go All the Way in Daytime
by Henry Seltzer
January 13, 2009 | 7:45am


As the World Turns took an unexpected turn this week and went where no soap opera—and few primetime shows—has dared: showing two post-coital men.

On June 1, 2007, the character of Noah Mayer made his first appearance on As the World Turns, the daytime drama that has aired daily since 1956. He was a military brat turned heartthrob, who quickly hooked up with a fellow intern at the local television station. She fell for him—and so did her openly gay best friend, Luke Snyder.

It took a while for Noah (played by Jake Silberman) to admit his own attraction to Luke (Van Hansis), who had come out the previous summer. On August 17, 2007, Noah and Luke shared a groundbreaking kiss—the first gay male kiss in the history of American daytime dramas. Overnight, the clip went viral and still stands as one of the most-viewed videos on YouTube.

This Christmas, Noah presented Luke with a watch that was engraved, "Worth the wait."

Since that fateful exchange of spit, the characters have naturally faced countless obstacles. At first, their mutual friend was caught in the crossfire of Noah's sexual identity crisis. Noah had to come out to his homophobic father, who (after killing his wife) soon conned Luke and Noah on a fishing trip where he shot Luke, paralyzing him from the waist down. But since this is daytime, where characters are known to have seven lives, it wasn't a surprise when Luke walked again thanks to the devotion and optimism of Noah's steadfast support. Even more twisted: Noah briefly married an Iraqi refugee to keep her in the country after she claimed his father saved her family. Luke and Noah stole kisses but fear of being discovered by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency drove their otherwise openly gay rapport back into the 1950s.

As the months wore on, the sexual tension between Luke and Noah (affectionately dubbed Nuke and Loah) grew. They kissed increasingly frequently and with decreasingly little fanfare from blogs, but they never went all the way. They did talk about sex—and what their first time would be like—but it never came anywhere near their horizon. Like everything in their relationship, intimacy was shown through incredibly compelling dialogue.

The inseparable pair talked about everything. Their feelings were always expressed (thanks in large part to head writer Jean Passanante, who happens to be responsible for the only two other gay characters in soap history) if not physically acted on.

Luke and Noah's dynamic escalated on New Year's Eve, when the night finally seemed right. Except for one elephant in the room: Luke's step-grandfather, who had kissed him during Thanksgiving. To make a convoluted story short, Luke got drunk (not a good thing when you've had a kidney transplant, too) after seeing Noah console his ex-girlfriend, and then he kissed his step-grandfather. Of course, Noah was a witness and threw a punch to protect "his love." When Luke confessed to initiating the kiss, Noah walked out, leaving Luke alone to read a note written from Noah, which was meant to be read the next morning, when they would have been together in bed.

For fans, it appeared, as usual, as if Luke and Noah had gone a few steps forward and many more steps back. Sure, they would recover over time. Like most soap "supercouples," they were meant to be. I was prepared for the long haul of relationship rebuilding.

It's difficult to explain to non-viewers how earnest and well-drawn Luke and Noah's relationship is. It was a task I felt ready to tackle after mildly (okay, very) obsessively watching the program (and getting hooked on the other plot lines in the process) for nearly two years now.

This weekend, I intended this article to be called "Why Daytime's Main Gays Should Abstain." It was going to be an attempt to explain how this couple is revolutionizing the portrayal of gays on television. They have had their share of media attention—beginning with their first kiss, a conservative outcry, and including a brief write-up in the New York Times—but nothing seemed to get at the heart of the matter.

For me at least, what makes Luke and Noah unique in television—and especially daytime—is that by not jumping in bed together, they're defying a classic gay stereotype. Indeed, many critics and gay bloggers accused As the World Turns (and Proctor and Gamble's production company) of having a double standard, since straight characters are routinely promiscuous.

In my view, the writers were holding the characters to a higher standard that should be applauded.

Who needs to see them shirtless between the sheets and read between the lines? As the World Turns is not The L Word or Queer as Folk. And for all its cliché, it's not as stereotypical as Will & Grace or Sex and the City when it comes to gay characters. Nor is it Brokeback Mountain.

As the World Turns seemed removed from that pressure—and in on the joke. This Christmas, for instance, Noah presented Luke with a watch that was engraved, "Worth the wait."

When I ran into stars of the show around New York City, I'd congratulate them for subtly making a difference. It seems as though more than gay-targeted programs, daytime shows have a special accessibility that allows them to win over hearts and minds. And they were (mostly) doing it via hearts and minds, not exposed nipples and wet chests.

Their epic relationship has lasted over a year. If that's forever in daytime (especially considering their collegiate age), it's an eternity in gay years—and, let's face it, that's a really long time to wait.

There is something to be said about a couple that shows its true colors (yes, Cyndi Lauper had a guest-spot during Pride Week) by their commitment, tenderness, sincerity, and loyalty in the face of so many odds, not because they wanted to get it on.

The more I watched As the World Turns, the less I actually wanted them to have sex.

So it came as a quite a shock, when on Monday's episode they rekindled their broken union by... having sex.

Without any warning or hysterics, the show took that unexpected turn and went where no daytime drama—and few primetime shows—has dared: Luke and Noah were shown post-coital, sheets ruffled.

And you know the best part? The person responsible for getting them back together after the fallout from Luke kissing his step-grandfather was his grandmother, the show's matriarch (played by Elizabeth Hubbard for the past 25 years), who was also the most understanding when Luke first came out.

So not only is this not your grandmother's soap, leave it to the grandmother-who-unwittingly-played-a-beard to get the boys back together.

She even delights in sharing their post-sex ice cream sundae.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:30 AM   #20
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I don't think that feeling that kissing another man is icky is indicative of latent homophobia or sexism, at least if you're a straight male. For me, the thought of kissing another man is unappealing at best, and I don't find it pleasurable to watch other men kiss. This is one of the reasons, by the way, that I really do believe homosexuality isn't a "lifestyle choice"--because I couldn't fathom making such a choice.

That said, I'm not at all saying it shouldn't be shown, nor am I saying there's any need to make a big "deal" out of it. And I think all the laughing and giggling and "ewww gross" stuff is juvenile and wrong. I realize that for gay men, there's nothing icky about it and I think it's fair and right to accurately show such relationships just as we do heterosexual relationships. In other words, whether I am personally titillated by it is beside the point.

On the other hand, women kissing each other is far less distasteful to me, simply because I AM attracted to women.

Does that make sense?
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:38 PM   #21
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I'm attracted to men but honestly I couldn't say that two men kissing is far less distasteful to me than two women. I don't know, I always wonder how much the whole issue is different for males and females and for what reasons.

I'm not being critical of you at all, I guess I just don't completely understand that reasoning- just seeing it from my point of view. I don't think it's necessarily homophobic either.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:47 PM   #22
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I think differing reactions to female on female kissing and male on male kissing are cultural, men generally don't kiss other men under any circumstances (in at least culturally in the UK and US) other than when your a wee boy and your dad kisses you good night, but that stops when your about 6. Girls hug and kiss each other throughout life

That said I kiss some of my mates on the forehead or cheek...especially when tipsy, but also when not But we're a strange bunch in Belfast.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:51 PM   #23
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But we're a strange bunch in Belfast.
Well we already knew that

I do think part of it is cultural and has to do with the way some males are raised. Good point.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:01 PM   #24
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Tis a bit strange, we all went to Catholic primary and secondary schools, yet came out all quite liberal...most of my teachers were also quite liberal...my biology teacher was particularly strange in a great way, you could set her off talking about her love of Eddie Izzard for hours, if you wanted a break in class you just had to mention his name and she would recite his standup

Anyway on topic...it's always going to be an incremental thing this idea two guys kissing is not 'ewww', I mean even in relatively liberal Europe people are still getting used to the idea of gay couples to a certain extent, and I imagine it's still more so in the states. It will all hopefully move forward.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:17 AM   #25
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I'm attracted to men but honestly I couldn't say that two men kissing is far less distasteful to me than two women. I don't know, I always wonder how much the whole issue is different for males and females and for what reasons.

I'm not being critical of you at all, I guess I just don't completely understand that reasoning- just seeing it from my point of view. I don't think it's necessarily homophobic either.
It's not really reasoning though...it's more just my personal response. Trying to avoid making anyone (including myself) blush here. . .but, I would say I don't get guys that are hyped up to see girl on girl action. There's not something espeically exciting about that for me.

I think it might simply boil down to the fact that because I'm attracted to women and not men, seeing a women involved in sexual behavior is going to be more appealing to me than seeing men involved in the same thing.

I don't think it is rational. It just is.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:01 AM   #26
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I was finally able to see Milk over the weekend -it's out on DVD tomorrow for anyone who is interested. I saw it in a theater that's still showing it.

I thought it was moving and Sean Penn definitely deserved that Oscar. I just wonder what the real reasons were for Dan White killing those men-not that there is any acceptable reason of course but what his real feelings and motives were I suppose. Was it more personal jealousy and insecurity than anything else? I know he was into his "family values" and all that. I read that he was allegedly depressed-so his lawyers said it was diminished capacity.

I can't believe that Dan White was found guilty of just manslaughter
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:34 PM   #27
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Personally, I find it funny as hell, just because if the men are straight and from America, they're often so uncomfortable with the idea that they look comical.

And I can understand where a man would find it repulsive. They aren't raised here with the idea of two men being physically affectionate with each other.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:20 AM   #28
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It's not really reasoning though...it's more just my personal response. Trying to avoid making anyone (including myself) blush here. . .but, I would say I don't get guys that are hyped up to see girl on girl action. There's not something espeically exciting about that for me.

I think it might simply boil down to the fact that because I'm attracted to women and not men, seeing a women involved in sexual behavior is going to be more appealing to me than seeing men involved in the same thing.

I don't think it is rational. It just is.
For me, it is the opposite, since I am attracted to men. Though, I don't mind a gay scene in a film, if it is well portrayed. A movie that comes to mind is Philadelphia. The end, was very touching. I couldn't stop crying.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:30 AM   #29
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For me, it is the opposite, since I am attracted to men. Though, I don't mind a gay scene in a film, if it is well portrayed. A movie that comes to mind is Philadelphia. The end, was very touching. I couldn't stop crying.
Oh geez, don't even start me on the ending to that movie. I cried a lot. It was the same with Brokeback. On a side note, I've never really understood what straight guys get out of watching 2 girls make out, until I saw the movie A Home at the End of the World with Colin Farrell. He's bisexual in the movie and ends up dancing then kissing one of his best guy friends in a really tender, beautiful scene. It was incredibly sexy to me as a straight woman. Then again, there's usually nothing tender or beautiful about 2 drunk girls making out, so I still don't understand the phenomena of guys being so into that. None of my ex-boyfriends or my guy friends can seem to explain that to me.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:31 PM   #30
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It's technically 'forboten', therefore it is tantalizing. Think about it: how many people here drool over U2? Why? Because we have no access to them other than concerts/vids/meet and greets. If we actually were in their lives, we'd probably not be all that interested. They're unattainable, and therefore desirable. Usually, anyway.
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