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Old 10-22-2008, 12:31 PM   #76
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Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Are you saying that we can't make a logical or personal opinion because of a few lines from the Bible?

Seriously?

Are we not allowed to have logical or personal opinions about the following quotes from the Bible?

1). "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
--1 Tim. 2:11-14

2). Exodus 31:13-15
Six days my work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

3). He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the lord.

Deuteronomy 23:1

4). When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

5). Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

6). Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.



Come on.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:31 PM   #77
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Carlos:

WHAT DOES YOUR HEART TELL YOU?
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #78
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Good question Beav.
I will vote based on that. Regardless.
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:36 PM   #79
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Carlos:

WHAT DOES YOUR HEART TELL YOU?
beav, you're such a romantic...
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:31 PM   #80
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Interesting topic and discussion. I tend to get very passionate about the issue, and it's not easy for me to talk about calmly (as purpleoscar can attest, since he bore the brunt of some of my "passion" in the last debate thread), so it's probably good that I didn't come in until later.

I am pro-choice but honestly don't know if I could ever have an abortion myself. The important distinction is that I do not want anyone else making that decision for me. I can only hope (and do what I can to try and prevent it from happening) that I never have to be in that position.

I can tell people how I feel about the subject, but I can't tell someone how they should vote. I can try to persuade, but when it's about something the other person is just as passionate about, all you can do is gather the facts, and vote with your conscience.

So to you Carlos, I say:

And to tag onto the comments from Utoo and folks with children, my mom, the mother of two, is a retired OB nurse and is very conservative. She's also pro-choice. So there you go.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:43 PM   #81
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I cannot imagine in this day and age that late-term abortion is EVER necessary to protect the life of the mother. If she can undergo a procedure to kill her unborn child, then she can also undergo either inducement of labor or a C-section to deliver the child and let it live. I don't buy the "health of the mother" hogwash, it just doesn't fly in this age of advanced medical techniques.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:44 PM   #82
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Well said cori
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:47 PM   #83
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retired OB nurse and is very conservative. She's also pro-choice. So there you go.
I used to work for a doctor who worked with a pathologist when he was a student. It was his job to put the aborted babies back together to make sure all of the parts were there. He said that without a doubt a baby is being killed, but he was still pro-choice - go figure. I can't imagine seeing what he saw and thinking that it's okay to kill a child just because it's in-utero.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:48 PM   #84
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I cannot imagine in this day and age that late-term abortion is EVER necessary to protect the life of the mother. If she can undergo a procedure to kill her unborn child, then she can also undergo either inducement of labor or a C-section to deliver the child and let it live. I don't buy the "health of the mother" hogwash, it just doesn't fly in this age of advanced medical techniques.
Do you have any medical training ?
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:52 PM   #85
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I can't imagine seeing what he saw and thinking that it's okay to kill a child just because it's in-utero.
Perhaps he felt the government should not have control over a woman's body.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #86
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I know this hasn't been brought up in this thread, but I think it relates to the discussion:

I think if you have seen some of the kids that come into my office, chewing at their orthotic devices meant to keep them safe/healthy, screaming at the touch of their own parents at times, tied to a wheelchair (and I literally mean tied) and requiring round the clock care of a nurse like I have, the opinions of most people on abortion (not in cases of rape or incest) would change very quickly.
I know because mine did.

Having a severely handicapped child is torturous for both you, and more importantly, the child. It's not something I would wish on anyone, and I think if someone were up for the challenge, then they should be able to do so. If someone wants to avoid the massive heartache of growing a child who they know will never be a complete human being, then that is their choice to make and I will fully support them in that.
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:06 PM   #87
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Perhaps he felt the government should not have control over a woman's body.
He said that because he didn't want his daughters having a baby if they got pregnant as a teenager.

I've had five children and not one of them was part of my body. They were their own person from the very beginning, just living inside me. I had no right to make the decision to take their life.
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:07 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
I know this hasn't been brought up in this thread, but I think it relates to the discussion:

I think if you have seen some of the kids that come into my office, chewing at their orthotic devices meant to keep them safe/healthy, screaming at the touch of their own parents at times, tied to a wheelchair (and I literally mean tied) and requiring round the clock care of a nurse like I have, the opinions of most people on abortion (not in cases of rape or incest) would change very quickly.
I know because mine did.

Having a severely handicapped child is torturous for both you, and more importantly, the child. It's not something I would wish on anyone, and I think if someone were up for the challenge, then they should be able to do so. If someone wants to avoid the massive heartache of growing a child who they know will never be a complete human being, then that is their choice to make and I will fully support them in that.
So it's okay to take the life of a child because they aren't perfect? When will the gas chambers open up?
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:13 PM   #89
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So it's okay to take the life of a child because they aren't perfect? When will the gas chambers open up?
I didn't say it was a government mandate. If you had read the last paragraph you would see that it was a decision to be left up to the parents. If they felt they could raise such a child, then I'd support them. If they didn't, I'd support them as well.

Perhaps it's because you feel that government needs to lay a hand in abortion that you read my post wrong.

Thanks for Godwinning.
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Old 10-22-2008, 03:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Tiger Edge View Post
I didn't say it was a government mandate. If you had read the last paragraph you would see that it was a decision to be left up to the parents. If they felt they could raise such a child, then I'd support them. If they didn't, I'd support them as well.

Perhaps it's because you feel that government needs to lay a hand in abortion that you read my post wrong.

Thanks for Godwinning.
I think abortion needs to be illegal. All other murder is illegal. Anymore animals have more rights than children do. Abortion has caused such a devaluing of human life. I was just stunned when I read that up to 95% of babies that are diagnosed with Down Syndrome are aborted! It is just so sad to see what this world is becoming.
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