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Old 02-22-2014, 12:42 PM   #31
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oh yikes
got up a little while ago
and hadn't turned on the news yet!


i only added the other stuff bc being newish to posters in this thread i wanted to give some of my political & personalbackgroud so you would understand my reactions since you don't know my much from FYM since i don't have much time to be here again until now-- work9ing puter & net connect again

i think i would want a more democratic, but also not a neo-liberal out come for the Ukraine,. Not so tied to Russia but not tied to uber laize-faire capitalism either. a mixed of poly-systems.

i wonder if there are ukrainians closer to my stream of thought. but with 2 bagger louder factions maybe hard to hear. must look further on the net
i hope they don't split.......

...but after reading ukie history 3 nights ago parts have beehn grabbed up by countries more west & east in the past!

my emotional/polynties are to nyc/usa and more emotional to Greece bc our family on my moms side is a big greek family while my dads (the ukie) was an only child . Tho we do go with both greek & ukranian traditions at easter time. my dad's dad was a "peasent" in/near outskirts of Kiev....left for here --- late 1800's or early 1900's have to research that.

there are some really upset ukrainians in parts of the 5 borroughs of nyc right. A few places i know of. ...i guess either "side" and i suppose people like me. wow
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:34 PM   #32
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Yulia Tymoshenko, the former Prime Minister that was put in prison 3 years ago allegedly for political reasons has been freed from prison in Kharkiv in eastern Ukraine. She then flew to Kiev and recently spoke to the demonstrators in the streets of Kiev.

"Heroes never die," former Ukraine Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko told hundreds of supporters Saturday night in Kiev shortly after being released from a prison hospital.
The opposition leader was talking about those who were killed in recent days in the capital's Independence Square.
As the crowd shouted her name, Tymoshenko called on their killers to be brought to justice.

"It is very nice to be able to feel the fresh air and to see people," she said in a statement upon her release from a hospital in the prison. "I hope our whole country would be able to see the sun from today. Because the best sons of our country lost their lives, those who covered bullets with their bodies, they have given up everything, so that now we all, each of us can be happy.
"Now we have one task -- to make sure that each drop of the blood won't be dropped in vain, that each drop of the blood won't be forgotten."
Her release prison came as Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych insisted in an interview aired on Ukrainian TV Saturday that he was not resigning and not leaving the country and would work to prevent further division within the country.
He spoke in Kharkiv, a pro-Russian stronghold, as the nation's parliament voted unanimously to remove him from office and to hold new elections on May 25.

Ukrainian opposition figure released from prison - CNN.com


Statues of Lenin have been torn down all across Ukraine over the past week. Perhaps true independence from Russian influence is on the horizon for Ukraine. Indeed it is a set back for Putins attempts to re-establish control over former Soviet Republics. Ukraine was controlled by the Russian Empire from 1667 to 1918 and then the Soviet Union from 1918 to 1991. Since independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine has struggled to find its own way as Russia has tried to exert its influence to keep it closer to Russia than the West. Today, 77% of Ukraine's population is ethnic Ukrainian and only 17% ethnic Russian. The Ukrainian language has made a strong comeback over the past decades after Russian/Soviet Authorities attempted to stamp it out. 67% of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian as their first/native language. Only 24% speak Russian as their first/native language. Ukraine today has the 30th largest population in the world with 45 million people and the 40th largest economy in the world with an estimated GDP adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity of 332 Billion in 2012.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:24 PM   #33
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Viktor Yanukovych needed to get his butt kicked out of office. The example in this article is one of many reasons:
Shocking opulence revealed as Ukraine leader flees home
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:23 PM   #34
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Do You Hear The People Sing? 2012 (Full Version) - Lyrics (Please share!!!) - YouTube
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:09 PM   #35
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Ukrainian rabbi's now urging Kiev's Jewish population to leave the city/country.

*Advertisement

Yes, yes, this is an RT article so take it with all the credibility you want, but the quotes speak for themselves.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-militants-210/

Getting even more serious now.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #36
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Ukraine Protesters Topple Lenin Statues

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Old 02-22-2014, 11:20 PM   #37
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Yulia Tymoshenko, the former Prime Minister that was put in prison 3 years ago allegedly for political reasons has been freed from prison in Kharkiv in eastern Ukraine. She then flew to Kiev and recently spoke to the demonstrators in the streets of Kiev.

"Heroes never die," former Ukraine Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko told hundreds of supporters Saturday night in Kiev shortly after being released from a prison hospital.
The opposition leader was talking about those who were killed in recent days in the capital's Independence Square.
As the crowd shouted her name, Tymoshenko called on their killers to be brought to justice.

"It is very nice to be able to feel the fresh air and to see people," she said in a statement upon her release from a hospital in the prison. "I hope our whole country would be able to see the sun from today. Because the best sons of our country lost their lives, those who covered bullets with their bodies, they have given up everything, so that now we all, each of us can be happy.
"Now we have one task -- to make sure that each drop of the blood won't be dropped in vain, that each drop of the blood won't be forgotten."
Her release prison came as Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych insisted in an interview aired on Ukrainian TV Saturday that he was not resigning and not leaving the country and would work to prevent further division within the country.
He spoke in Kharkiv, a pro-Russian stronghold, as the nation's parliament voted unanimously to remove him from office and to hold new elections on May 25.

Ukrainian opposition figure released from prison - CNN.com


Statues of Lenin have been torn down all across Ukraine over the past week. Perhaps true independence from Russian influence is on the horizon for Ukraine. Indeed it is a set back for Putins attempts to re-establish control over former Soviet Republics. Ukraine was controlled by the Russian Empire from 1667 to 1918 and then the Soviet Union from 1918 to 1991. Since independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine has struggled to find its own way as Russia has tried to exert its influence to keep it closer to Russia than the West. Today, 77% of Ukraine's population is ethnic Ukrainian and only 17% ethnic Russian. The Ukrainian language has made a strong comeback over the past decades after Russian/Soviet Authorities attempted to stamp it out. 67% of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian as their first/native language. Only 24% speak Russian as their first/native language. Ukraine today has the 30th largest population in the world with 45 million people and the 40th largest economy in the world with an estimated GDP adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity of 332 Billion in 2012.
Yulia Tymoshenko is not the saint that the Western press and the USA now want to make believe. I remind that she was arrested for corruption, power abuse, financial crimes, and I also remember that she rules part of the strong ukrainian oligarchy.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:27 PM   #38
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Golden Dawn's surge is still a pretty recent thing, all in the past few years, and I'm not sure its rise has been getting as much attention outside of Europe as it should (likewise Svoboda, Hungary's Jobbik etc).
Golden Dawn may be recent as a party, but already existed as an organized structure. Plus, part of the less radical Golden Dawn's agenda was already fulfilled by the LAOS party, that was "exterminated" in the 2012 elections.
These extreme-right and neonazi phenomenons and parties are not that recent, I think, but only recently they've been gaining power, with the ruin of the traditional conservative right and the social-democracy that is disfigured.
The VVD is the Nederlands has been around for almost a decade. The same for the extreme-right in Austria or in some scandinavian countries. France's Front National almost won elections in the 1980's and 1990's... And is probably going to win the Europeans in May.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:02 AM   #39
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Yulia Tymoshenko is not the saint that the Western press and the USA now want to make believe. .
Really? What is your evidence against her?

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I remind that she was arrested for corruption, power abuse, financial crimes, and I also remember that she rules part of the strong ukrainian oligarchy
Yes of course. Who was she arrested by? A Lenin/Putin stooge named viktor yanukovych. She was then nearly beaten to death while she was in prison! Sorry, but she will likely be the next President of Ukraine, elected by popular vote this May! Ukraine will be apart of the European Union eventually and will likely join NATO as well. Sorry Russia, but the Soviet Union and Russian Empire is DEAD!
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:21 AM   #40
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Yanukovych is a stooge of a guy who died 90 years ago and had a vastly different ideology to him? I don't know, man. The only way in which Lenin may at all have any relevance in this is as a symbol of Russian imperialism (ie. tearing down his statues, of course, from what I've heard it's been the Svoboda blokes going at it), but otherwise he had no effect or say in Yanukovych becoming president. A pretty surprising post from you, Steve Bono.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:29 AM   #41
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Svoboda fascists occupying the Kiev city hall, large banner of their fascist 'hero' at the entrance.



Very concerned for what may happen to minorities in the future.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:27 AM   #42
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Svoboda fascists occupying the Kiev city hall, large banner of their fascist 'hero' at the entrance.



Very concerned for what may happen to minorities in the future.
There are also recent photos of the past few days of city halls occupied and with Hitler's banners at the entrance too.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:33 AM   #43
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Really? What is your evidence against her?



Yes of course. Who was she arrested by? A Lenin/Putin stooge named viktor yanukovych. She was then nearly beaten to death while she was in prison! Sorry, but she will likely be the next President of Ukraine, elected by popular vote this May! Ukraine will be apart of the European Union eventually and will likely join NATO as well. Sorry Russia, but the Soviet Union and Russian Empire is DEAD!

Was she arrested by the opposition? Yes. Was she badly treated? Yes. Is she a saint? No.
Go read about who Tymoshenko is, about her past, about the press she had in the same Western media a few years ago, compare it, and then you write whatever you want.

Wait until Ukrania joins the EU (it won't be long until it's going to collapse too... shhhhh, don't tell anyone). I'm going to laugh loud when ukrainians wages are still low (while they dream to be "brothers" of the neighbours in Germany), when they'll have successive bailouts in the name of democratization while their ressources are sucked, when the usual brainwash against western european left is made which'll lead 'em to elect right and extreme-right governments and deputees, etc.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:35 AM   #44
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Yanukovych is a stooge of a guy who died 90 years ago and had a vastly different ideology to him? I don't know, man. The only way in which Lenin may at all have any relevance in this is as a symbol of Russian imperialism (ie. tearing down his statues, of course, from what I've heard it's been the Svoboda blokes going at it), but otherwise he had no effect or say in Yanukovych becoming president. A pretty surprising post from you, Steve Bono.
First, stop calling the people of Ukraine who desire true independence from Russia and its past as well as closer ties with the west, Fascist or Nazi's. That's an old tactic by Communist all across Eastern Europe as they lost power after the Soviet Union's defeat in the Cold War 23 years ago. I remember the Soviet military trying to persuade people in Poland in 1990 to let the Soviet military stay there so they could protect them from Fascism. Its absurd!
The People of Ukraine who are tearing down statues of Lenin all across Ukraine certainly think the comparison is relevant. Both Lenin and Yanukovych believe in the power of the state to repress the people and enrich themselves. Both are elitist who think they are above the people and have no problem using violence, murder, and torture in order to get what they want. They are both representative of evil, anti-democractic and against human rights. Yanukovych had his Police sniping and killing protesters, sniping and killing medics as they tried to save the lives of people who were shot. Yanukovych tried to get the military to crack down, and when he was unable to get their support, he ran. Yanukovych is a dictator just like Lenin. Yes, they may have some differences, but so do most dictators.

Human Rights will be far better in a Ukraine that is free and independent of Russian influence and allowed to do as it pleases with the West and other countries of the world. Yanukovych had his thugs nearly beat Yulia to death while she was imprisoned in Kharkiv. Why would you defend someone like that? Minorities will have it far better under a government that respects democracy and human rights. Yanukovych views democracy and human rights as things that he needs to limit and work around in order to get his way.
Sure, there are people with extremist ideas everywhere. But the idea that minorities would be safer under Yanukovych rather than Yulia is not true at all.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:52 AM   #45
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Was she arrested by the opposition? Yes. Was she badly treated? Yes. Is she a saint? No.
Go read about who Tymoshenko is, about her past, about the press she had in the same Western media a few years ago, compare it, and then you write whatever you want.

Wait until Ukrania joins the EU (it won't be long until it's going to collapse too... shhhhh, don't tell anyone). I'm going to laugh loud when ukrainians wages are still low (while they dream to be "brothers" of the neighbours in Germany), when they'll have successive bailouts in the name of democratization while their ressources are sucked, when the usual brainwash against western european left is made which'll lead 'em to elect right and extreme-right governments and deputees, etc.
Well, that's certainly what Putin wants Ukrainians to believe. Join me, or collapse and die on your own or with the West. Well, that was said about a lot of other East European countries as they moved towards the West and away from Moscow over the past 25 years. The result is that some of these countries are now apart of the first world or close to it. The Ukrainians are not going to be scared away from joining the West by fears of fascism and economic collapse.
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