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Old 03-21-2014, 07:29 PM   #181
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I'm not seeing it yet, more likely that eastern Ukrainians will take matters into their own hands (and they already have to a degree) such as occupying administrative buildings. All I'll say for now is that there's an awful lot going on in the eastern/southern parts of the country right now.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:20 AM   #182
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Beloved Western darling Yulia Tymoshenko in a supposed leaked recording of a conversation with a parliamentarian, where she suggests that the 8 million ethnic Russians in the east 'must be killed with nuclear weapons.'

I would usually be a bit unsure as to the leak's validity but her official Twitter account confirms everything bar the '8 million Russians' part.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:14 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
Beloved Western darling Yulia Tymoshenko in a supposed leaked recording of a conversation with a parliamentarian, where she suggests that the 8 million ethnic Russians in the east 'must be killed with nuclear weapons.'

I would usually be a bit unsure as to the leak's validity but her official Twitter account confirms everything bar the '8 million Russians' part.
It was also published in some european newspapers that the leader of one of the 3 neonazi parties, the leader of the Pravy Sektor, was murdered.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:57 PM   #184
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Beloved Western darling Yulia Tymoshenko in a supposed leaked recording of a conversation with a parliamentarian, where she suggests that the 8 million ethnic Russians in the east 'must be killed with nuclear weapons.'

I would usually be a bit unsure as to the leak's validity but her official Twitter account confirms everything bar the '8 million Russians' part.
Do you think that Putin or other Russian officials might have ever said something in a private conversation that would never be official policy or even really be considered to actually do.

Do you think if India took some disputed land from Pakistan or vice/ versa the thought of nukes would not be in the conversation?

And as for nukes, after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine was number 3 on the list of countries with nukes, only behind USA, and Russia. With Ukraine and Libya both giving up their nukes and being toppled why would N K, Iran (if they have/get any) or any other country ever give up their nukes again.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:15 PM   #185
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It was also published in some european newspapers that the leader of one of the 3 neonazi parties, the leader of the Pravy Sektor, was murdered.

I saw that on TV last night when I was watching the Russian TV channel. I have been watching it lately along with Al-Jazeera to get more and better information about world events.


here is their head line


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Murderous Ukrainian ultra-nationalist dead – after 2 decades of violent thuggery


Muzychko was shot dead during a Ukrainian police raid in Rovno on March 25, with controversy immediately surrounding his death.
Russia, which earlier put Muzychko on an international wanted list for his militant activity in Chechnya, has said it will not recognize the nationalist leader is dead until an official notice arrives from Kiev.

http://rt.com/news/ukrainian-nationa...ko-antics-093/
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:58 AM   #186
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It was also published in some european newspapers that the leader of one of the 3 neonazi parties, the leader of the Pravy Sektor, was murdered.
Isn't Yarosh the leader? Either way, one less fascist alive is always a good thing.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:42 AM   #187
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Interesting article re: neo-Nazis in the Ukraine:

Ukraine's Phantom Neo-Nazi Menace - David Frum - The Atlantic

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—“When was the last time you personally experienced anti-Semitism?” I asked the executive director of the organized Jewish community for the city of Kiev. He gave me a puzzled look. “You mean, called me a Zhid or something like that?” “Anything.” He thought for a moment. “Back in Soviet times.”

I put the same question to a roomful of senior citizens in one of the country’s 32 Jewish social-service centers. The group, which was mostly women, laughed out loud. They faced plenty of problems: the standard old-age pension in Ukraine is only about $100 a month, pitifully little even in this poor country. But the Russian claim that gangs of neo-Nazis are roaming Ukraine, threatening its Jewish population, evoked unanimous scorn from every Jewish person I talked to in the country.

...

All my conversations on these subjects were off-the-record. The incidents are ongoing police matters, and older Ukrainians have developed a hard-learned caution about being identified in the media. However, I spoke to more than a dozen people who occupied a variety of leadership roles within the Ukrainian Jewish community. And not a single person took seriously the idea that these anti-Jewish incidents had been carried out by “neo-Nazis.”

Take the most visually spectacular incident: the daubing of a swastika and anti-Semitic slogans on a synagogue in Simferopol, the capital of Crimea.The incident occurred the night before the Russians invaded, creating convenient photographic confirmation of one of Moscow’s pretexts for invasion: the supposed neo-Nazi menace inside Ukraine. The synagogue’s security camera recorded that a lone individual, never subsequently identified, was responsible for the graffiti. There had been no previous such incident in the nearly two decades since the local Jewish community recovered the synagogue from communist-era confiscation.
The entire article is worth a read, but this does seem to cast some legitimate doubt as to the prevalence and influence of neo-Nazis in Ukraine.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:08 PM   #188
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Although Russia's claims, predictably, are exaggerated, I'm really baffled anyone could call this threat non-existent. I've heard plenty from people who live in Ukraine who are pretty certain that the threat is quite significant, regardless of what this article suggests.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:13 PM   #189
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Even the acting president is finding them hard to deal with.

BBC News - Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:11 PM   #190
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I want to add that I find Putin's muscle flexing over Ukrainian fascists very hard to take seriously, especially taking into account his distinct lack of action over the fascist presence in Russia (there are arguably more neo-Nazis per capita in Russia than there are in Ukraine) and how they've been allowed to roam over the past two decades.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:25 PM   #191
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this may be not much of anything

Pro-Russians seize state buildings in eastern Ukraine


or if this escalates it could lead to more annexation

and I am not suggesting that Putin has any control over how big this gets.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:44 AM   #192
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They've declared their own governments, that is pretty significant.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:03 PM   #193
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Russia's Special Ops Invasion of Ukraine Has Begun - The Daily Beast

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Russia's Special Ops Invasion of Ukraine Has Begun

Putin appears to be using elite commandos—Spetsnaz—to spearhead his stealth move into Crimea and, perhaps, beyond.
Forget the military forces massed on the border and brief incursions into Ukrainian territory and airspace. Russia is invading Ukraine in the shadows. The same special operations forces that appear to be rigging the election in Crimea are quietly escalating tensions inside other parts of eastern Ukraine.

This week the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) arrested a group of people led by a Ukrainian citizen who were said to be scoping out three of its most crucial military divisions in the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson.

In Donetsk in eastern Ukraine, press reports from the ground say that Russian provocateurs have attacked Ukrainians who organized anti-Russian street protests.

The forces behind these operations, according to U.S. officials briefed on the updates in Ukraine, are likely the Spetsnaz, the Russian military’s highly trained saboteurs, spies and special operations forces who may change the face—and the borders—of Ukraine without once showing the Russian flag on their uniforms. Or, for that matter, without wearing any particular uniforms at all.

Few politicians in Kiev seemed to have any doubts that the results of the referendumSunday will bring Crimea under the Kremlin's control.

In 1979 the Soviet Union was able to take over Afghanistan with less than 700 Spetsnaz soldiers. These same operatives are now spreading out over Ukraine, according to U.S. officials who spoke to The Daily Beast on condition of anonymity. One of these officials stressed that while U.S. intelligence assesses there are more Spetsnaz forces surging into Ukraine, there is no reliable number on how many are inside the country and ultimately whether their presence is a prelude to a more formal invasion.

On March 5, Jane's Defense Weekly ran an analysis of Russian troop movements near Ukraine and noted similarities with the USSR's special operations campaign in 1979 before the full invasion of the country. "A significant indicator of Russia's next steps would be the arrival in Crimea of personnel from Moscow's GCHQ-NSA equivalent organization, previously titled the Federal Agency of Government Communications and Information (FAPSI), to carry forward the situation," Jane's wrote. In the last seven weeks, two recordings of high profile telephone conversations featuring European Union and U.S. officials have mysteriously surfaced on the Internet, suggesting Russia's technical intelligence services have been active during the Ukraine crisis




Of course, the situation in Ukraine is fluid, and the intelligence coming from the area is incomplete. Most analysts say only Putin and a small circle of advisers will decide whether Russia's current military incursions become a full-fledged invasion.

On the ground in Ukraine, such confusion reigns that the role of Spetsnaz is hard to confirm. But its involvement would come as no surprise.

In Kiev’s Maidan Square, there’s the camp set up by veterans who fought for the Soviets in Afghanistan when Ukraine was still part of the USSR. Twenty-five years ago, Ukrainian and Russian soldiers belonged to the same army; they were dying shoulder to shoulder in Afghanistan. So the Ukrainian veterans watch closely and understand only too well the tactics used against them now.

For the last two weeks, Oleg Mikhnyuk, the commander of a group of veterans calling themselves the Afghan Hundred, has been receiving reports from southern and eastern Ukraine about the mysterious "Russian presence" on Ukraine's territory. "If in the beginning of March they were just 'little green men' without identity driving armored vehicles all over Crimea, now the invasion is official, as Kherson region is definitely outside of the Russian Black Sea fleet jurisdiction, " Mikhnyuk said. (Putin played his game initially within his self-defined version of a treaty that gives Russia the right to locate military bases in Crimea.)

This evening the crowd in the Afghan veterans’ camp grew quiet as one of their senior officers spoke on his cell phone. Earlier in the day, the foreign ministry of Ukraine declared that the Russian invasion had gone beyond the Crimean peninsula, and the ministry demanded immediate withdrawal of Russian military forces from Ukrainian territory.

On the previous night, locals of Strelkovoye village complained to Afghan veterans about Russian military helicopters circling over Kherson region. On Saturday morning about 50 militants in Russian army uniforms occupied a natural gas substation there. "But our forces immediately reacted and pushed them off our territory," Mikhnyuk said, expressing hopes that no "provocation could cause bloodshed in the future.”

Meanwhile, Petr Mekhed at the Ukrainian ministry of defense declared that "the statement about the invasion came from foreign ministry, and the defense ministry cannot confirm the invasion.”

Also reports continue of "unknown armed men" kidnapping Ukrainian civil society activists, and even anti-Russian activities are suspected as “false flag” operations by Putin’s operatives. Saturday afternoon, a Greek Catholic priest, Mykola Kvich, was reportedly kidnapped as he conducted a service in his church in Sevastopol. At about 8 p.m. dozens of masked men stormed the Moskva Hotel in the Crimean capital of Simferopol. The hotel's visitors were told to stay in their rooms while the men armed with machine guns raided the hotel.

Daily Beast correspondent Jamie Dettmer, who was there, says they may well have been Spetsnaz: “They initially claimed it was an anti-terror exercise and then said it was a false tip off. They were aggressive, waving guns, automatic weaponry with silencers on, and they lashed out at a cameraman with rifle butts. Maybe an exercise in intimidation—we don't know."

Few politicians in Kiev seemed to have any doubts that the results of the referendum Sunday will bring Crimea under the Kremlin's control. The question discussed in political circles continues to be whether Russia will use open military force against Ukrainian army bases outside the peninsula, in the rest of Ukraine. With the Spetsnaz deployed, it may not have to.
On Twitter:
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/...456066/photo/1



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A "#Donetsk separatist" who forgot to remove his #Russian Airborne Forces T-shirt... oops #fail. pic.twitter.com/BcLq1Q2lFl
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:30 AM   #194
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See, I'm past getting outraged about outside influences on Ukrainian soil, I think it was simply a given that both sides would be getting stuck in. And yes, I've heard reports of American soldiers donning Ukrainian uniform, so this is a hardly outrageous development to me at least.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:14 AM   #195
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Locals manage to stop a solitary Ukrainian tank after some persistence.

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