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Old 03-16-2014, 05:05 PM   #151
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One option, Ukraine may just take this lying down

And hope Putin stops here.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:43 PM   #152
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Crimea voted to join Russia with... wait for it... 95.5% in agreement.

BBC News - Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

The vote was widely boycotted, so the 95.5% number can't be ascribed to vote rigging (I guess?).
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:12 AM   #153
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95.5% sounds overly excessive, but I still think a majority of Crimeans would've voted to join Russia anyway.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:08 AM   #154
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In all this process, I just love EU (the US toy) opinion.
Kosovo secession was fine, even if some countries do not recognize it. Montenegro was fine.
The provisional ukrainian government which wasn't elected by anyone and whose members (that include 5 assume neonazis) was chosen by the "Sparta method"... Was fine.
And a referendum towards a territory that Kruschev (which was ukrainian) just gave as an object to Ukraine... Is illegal.
EU loves referendums... Not. Most of its countries weren't asked by referendum to join EU or the Euro, and those who did said "no" and released several referendums until the EU obtained the wanted "yes". When Greece threatened with a referendum to its permanence in the Euro in 2011(?), Prime-Minister Papandreou got its head chopped and got his government replaced by a bunch of non-elected technocrats from Goldman Sachs and chosen by the EU. When Catalonia or Basque Country or Scotland leave their threats of a referendum for their independence the EU says that the doors will be closed for these territories.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:22 AM   #155
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It's not at all an unpredictable stance from them, I think many people who don't resort to the black and whites and the good/evils will see that this reaction was pretty expected. Crimea's entry into Russia isn't something that benefits them.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #156
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Did I hear correctly that there wasn't even an option on the ballot to remain as part of the Ukraine? That sounds legit....
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:59 AM   #157
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There was an option which asked if Crimea wanted to be restored as per the 1992 constitution, that constitution gives the Crimean parliament the choice to establish relations with who it wishes.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:43 PM   #158
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Or in other words, you could choose from "Russia" or "possibly Russia".
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:40 PM   #159
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Pretty good round up from well known enemy of western power, Stratfor:http://http://www.stratfor.com/weekl...onding-ukraine
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:10 AM   #160
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=1c6eYId4fPE

Svoboda members coming into the office of the director of a Ukrainian TV channel, and beat him, calling him a 'moskal' which is a slur used by Ukrainians re: Russians. A Ukrainian paper suggests that they took the guy into a vehicle and drove him off into an undisclosed location after the video stops, predictably.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:49 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=1c6eYId4fPE

Svoboda members coming into the office of the director of a Ukrainian TV channel, and beat him, calling him a 'moskal' which is a slur used by Ukrainians re: Russians. A Ukrainian paper suggests that they took the guy into a vehicle and drove him off into an undisclosed location after the video stops, predictably.
Also, the provisional ukrainian government says that Putin is acting like the nazi Germany.
Wait... A government that includes 5 assumed neonazis called "nazi" to the objector?
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:25 AM   #162
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I'm tired of the assumption that Putin is a fascist of any sort, it's just a lazy observation, he may do laughably little about the fascist/nationalist presence in his own country but that in itself is not enough to render him as one.

Yatsenyuk does come off as a bit of an uncharismatic, dull clown. Sounds like a Eastern European incarnation of Michael Stipe if he was a bored, hapless maths teacher too.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:31 AM   #163
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I'm tired of the assumption that Putin is a fascist of any sort,
The guy just invaded another country an annexed part of it. The last time that happened in Europe, it was during a war called World War II, and the person doing the invading and annexing was named Hitler.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:32 AM   #164
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That doesn't suggest he's a fascist though.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:48 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by larry5mullen View Post
The guy just invaded another country an annexed part of it. The last time that happened in Europe, it was during a war called World War II, and the person doing the invading and annexing was named Hitler.
Crimea was incorporated in Ukraine in 1954. It was an offer, but it was annexed as well. And as you see it occured after the WWII.
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