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Old 02-22-2010, 11:53 AM   #76
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The Wire.... would be my recommendation.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:16 PM   #77
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AUSTIN, Texas – The daughter of a man who crashed his small plane into a building housing offices of the Internal Revenue Service called her father a hero for his anti-government views but said his actions, which killed an IRS employee, were "inappropriate."

Joe Stack's adult daughter, Samantha Bell, spoke to ABC's "Good Morning America" from her home in Norway. Asked during a phone interview broadcast Monday if she considered her father a hero, she said: "Yes. Because now maybe people will listen."

Authorities say Stack, 53, targeted the IRS office building in Austin on Thursday, killing employee Vernon Hunter and himself, after posting a ranting manifesto against the agency and the government. He apparently set fire to his home before flying his plane into the office building.

Hunter's son, Ken Hunter, said he's alarmed by comments that the pilot was a hero.

"How can you call someone a hero who after he burns down his house, he gets into his plane ... and flies it into a building to kill people?" Hunter told ABC." "My dad Vernon did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My dad's a hero."

Bell said she offered her deepest condolences to Hunter's family. She said her father's last actions were wrong.

"But if nobody comes out and speaks up on behalf of injustice, then nothing will ever be accomplished," she told ABC. "But I do not agree with his last action with what he did. But I do agree about the government."

abcnews.com

Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American 'Patriot' Resurgence
Expert: Online Cheers for Joe Stack Reflect Growing Anti-Government Movement
By LEE FERRAN

Feb. 19, 2010 —

Most were shocked by the charred scene of Joe Stack's kamikaze attack on a Texas IRS office, but for an alarmingly growing number of Americans Stack is a hero.

The Web was studded with praise for Stack almost immediately after his plane slammed into the Austin office complex Thursday morning. The admiring salutes appearing on sites ranging from Facebook to the pages of extremist groups reflect what experts say is an "explosive growth" in the anti-government patriot movement.

"Extremist groups are already aligning behind [Joe Stack], beginning to talk about him as a hero," said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center which studies American militia and hate groups. "The growth of those groups has been astounding."

Stack's suicide note, an angry rant against the IRS and the government which was posted online the morning of his death, got around 20 million hits before it was taken down at the request of the FBI, according to Alex Melen, president and founder of T35, the network service provider for the Web site where the note was posted.

Melen, 25, said within minutes of taking the note down, the company was "bombarded" with around 3,000 e-mails demanding Stack's words be reposted. Some of the e-mails contained personal threats against Melen.

"What's funny is most people were pretty much praising him," Melen told ABC News.

Bob Schulz, founder of the anti-government We the People Foundation, said that while he only advocates non-violent means of protest, he can understand Stack's motives and said it is a reflection of a movement unlike any he's ever seen.

"There's a huge patriot movement," Schulz said. "I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years. Never have I seen the likes of what's going on now. It's delightful."

The anti-government movement gathered strength during the early 1990s, resulting in several high profile stand-offs with the FBI. Anti-government militias trained in the woods and prepared for a confrontation with the U.S. The militia movement peaked in 1995 when Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people.

The anti-government movement became dormant until the mid-2000s. Potok said a militia and extreme anti-government movement, fueled initially by anti-immigration sentiment, is back in a big way, especially since President Obama took office.

According to an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security, the current anti-government climate "parallels" what federal officials saw in the 1990s.

"Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal through propoganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning," the report said.

For many, Obama's election was a near perfect storm of disappointments, Potok said.

"The longer term thing goes back seven or eight years due to immigration," Potok said citing the surge of border patrol militias like the Minutemen. "But Obama's election, which is in a way related to the non-white immigration issue, was representative proof that this country is irreversibly changing demographically. Then the economy has played a role and things have gotten worse and worse."

The result is what Potok referred to as a "broad-based, right-wing populist rebellion," generally short of violent extremism.

Expert: Violent Acts 'Inspire' Extreme Groups

While not necessarily extreme itself, many groups in the overall movement are "shot through with radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism," Potok said. "Sometimes these attacks do serve as inspiration for other groups and individuals."

One reason anti-government groups are embracing Stack, rather than distancing themselves from his extreme actions, is that he does not seem to be crazy, Potok said. It's a characteristic that troubles forensic pyschiatrist and ABC News consultant Dr. Michael Welner.

"It's easy to get a sense that someone like snaps," Welner told "Good Morning America" today. "But this is the kind of crime that's planned for a long time... I don't find it to be psychotic. That's the problem here. It's rational."

Schulz believes Stack was simply beaten to the point of desperation by the government.

"The government is routinely allegedly violating the Constitution... Then when you call them on it, they ignore you too. That's enough to drive a lot of people together and to start, you know, some kind of movement," he said. "There are people that are out there so frustrated that say 'Hey it's time to lock and load.'"

Online Posting: 'Prepare for Battle!'

Schulz compared Stack's attack to McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing, saying despite the desperation, any violent act is detrimental to the movement.

"Anybody that commits a violent act against the government sets things back," Schulz said. "The government uses that as more reason to further clamp down... Timothy McVeigh set things back. Joe Stamp set things back."

Online, it appears that many people disagree.

"He sacrificed his life to inspire the quest for TRUTH," one Facebook poster said. "He deserves a memorial. A one man uprising... God Bless him."

"This was quite heroic," said a member of Stormfront.org, a white supremacist Web site. "There is a gradual awakening underway."

"This is just the beginning, prepare for battle!" another said.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:27 PM   #78
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what are the specific issues that these people have with the government? can they give us concrete examples from their lives about how government has oppressed them? have they been taken away in the dark of night and waterboarded by Dick Cheney? what are the specific injustices?

or is this really all about how people just want more money via lower (or no) taxes?
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:16 PM   #79
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Some people have a 'hero' complex it seems.
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:40 PM   #80
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what are the specific issues that these people have with the government? can they give us concrete examples from their lives about how government has oppressed them? have they been taken away in the dark of night and waterboarded by Dick Cheney? what are the specific injustices?

or is this really all about how people just want more money via lower (or no) taxes?
And a white president. And less Mexicans.
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:07 PM   #81
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My understanding is that he tried to murder his family and then flew a plane into a building because he had a poor understanding of how taxes work and got called out on it. Is that about right? Didn't he say he didn't pay taxes in two separate years and got fined both times? Wouldn't you learn about it after the first run in with the IRS?
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:50 PM   #82
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One man's terrorist is often another man's freedom fighter/patriot/hero...it's all about perspective.
I'm not sure Stack died to defend anyone else's freedom.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:33 PM   #83
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Inappropriate?????

Ya think, you stupid idiot?

My God, conservatives just get dumber every time they open their fucking mouths.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:44 PM   #84
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It's better to go to the address directly because Frank Rich posts links to the evidence in his text in highlighted words. Very neat.

Op-Ed Columnist - The Axis of the Obsessed and Deranged - NYTimes.com

The Axis of the Obsessed and Deranged
By FRANK RICH
Published: February 27, 2010

No one knows what history will make of the present — least of all journalists, who can at best write history’s sloppy first draft. But if I were to place an incautious bet on which political event will prove the most significant of February 2010, I wouldn’t choose the kabuki health care summit that generated all the ink and 24/7 cable chatter in Washington. I’d put my money instead on the murder-suicide of Andrew Joseph Stack III, the tax protester who flew a plane into an office building housing Internal Revenue Service employees in Austin, Tex., on Feb. 18. It was a flare with the dark afterlife of an omen.

What made that kamikaze mission eventful was less the deranged act itself than the curious reaction of politicians on the right who gave it a pass — or, worse, flirted with condoning it. Stack was a lone madman, and it would be both glib and inaccurate to call him a card-carrying Tea Partier or a “Tea Party terrorist.” But he did leave behind a manifesto whose frothing anti-government, anti-tax rage overlaps with some of those marching under the Tea Party banner. That rant inspired like-minded Americans to create instant Facebook shrines to his martyrdom. Soon enough, some cowed politicians, including the newly minted Tea Party hero Scott Brown, were publicly empathizing with Stack’s credo — rather than risk crossing the most unforgiving brigade in their base.

Representative Steve King, Republican of Iowa, even rationalized Stack’s crime. “It’s sad the incident in Texas happened,” he said, “but by the same token, it’s an agency that is unnecessary. And when the day comes when that is over and we abolish the I.R.S., it’s going to be a happy day for America.” No one in King’s caucus condemned these remarks. Then again, what King euphemized as “the incident” took out just 1 of the 200 workers in the Austin building: Vernon Hunter, a 68-year-old Vietnam veteran nearing his I.R.S. retirement. Had Stack the devastating weaponry and timing to match the death toll of 168 inflicted by Timothy McVeigh on a federal building in Oklahoma in 1995, maybe a few of the congressman’s peers would have cried foul.

It is not glib or inaccurate to invoke Oklahoma City in this context, because the acrid stench of 1995 is back in the air. Two days before Stack’s suicide mission, The Times published David Barstow’s chilling, months-long investigation of the Tea Party movement. Anyone who was cognizant during the McVeigh firestorm would recognize the old warning signs re-emerging from the mists of history. The Patriot movement. “The New World Order,” with its shadowy conspiracies hatched by the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. Sandpoint, Idaho. White supremacists. Militias.

Barstow confirmed what the Southern Poverty Law Center had found in its report last year: the unhinged and sometimes armed anti-government right that was thought to have vaporized after its Oklahoma apotheosis is making a comeback. And now it is finding common cause with some elements of the diverse, far-flung and still inchoate Tea Party movement. All it takes is a few self-styled “patriots” to sow havoc.

Equally significant is Barstow’s finding that most Tea Party groups have no affiliation with the G.O.P. despite the party’s ham-handed efforts to co-opt them. The more we learn about the Tea Partiers, the more we can see why. They loathe John McCain and the free-spending, TARP-tainted presidency of George W. Bush. They really do hate all of Washington, and if they hate Obama more than the Republican establishment, it’s only by a hair or two. (Were Obama not earning extra demerits in some circles for his race, it might be a dead heat.) The Tea Partiers want to eliminate most government agencies, starting with the Fed and the I.R.S., and end spending on entitlement programs. They are not to be confused with the Party of No holding forth in Washington — a party that, after all, is now positioning itself as a defender of Medicare spending. What we are talking about here is the Party of No Government at All.

The distinction between the Tea Party movement and the official G.O.P. is real, and we ignore it at our peril. While Washington is fixated on the natterings of Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Michael Steele and the presumed 2012 Republican presidential front-runner, Mitt Romney, these and the other leaders of the Party of No are anathema or irrelevant to most Tea Partiers. Indeed, McConnell, Romney and company may prove largely irrelevant to the overall political dynamic taking hold in America right now. The old G.O.P. guard has no discernible national constituency beyond the scattered, often impotent remnants of aging country club Republicanism. The passion on the right has migrated almost entirely to the Tea Party’s counterconservatism.

The leaders embraced by the new grass roots right are a different slate entirely: Glenn Beck, Ron Paul and Sarah Palin. Simple math dictates that none of this trio can be elected president. As George F. Will recently pointed out, Palin will not even be the G.O.P. nominee “unless the party wants to lose at least 44 states” (as it did in Barry Goldwater’s 1964 Waterloo). But these leaders do have a consistent ideology, and that ideology plays to the lock-and-load nutcases out there, not just to the peaceable (if riled up) populist conservatives also attracted to Tea Partyism. This ideology is far more troubling than the boilerplate corporate conservatism and knee-jerk obstructionism of the anti-Obama G.O.P. Congressional minority.

In the days after Stack’s Austin attack, the gradually coalescing Tea Party dogma had its Washington coming out party at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), across town from Capitol Hill. The most rapturously received speaker was Beck, who likened the G.O.P. to an alcoholic in need of a 12-step program to recover from its “progressive-lite” collusion with federal government. Beck vilified an unnamed Republican whose favorite president was the progressive Theodore Roosevelt — that would be McCain — and ominously labeled progressivism a cancer that “must be cut out of the system.”

A co-sponsor of CPAC was the John Birch Society, another far-right organization that has re-emerged after years of hibernation. Its views, which William F. Buckley Jr. decried in the 1960s as an “idiotic” and “irrational” threat to true conservatism, remain unchanged. At the conference’s conclusion, a presidential straw poll was won by Congressman Paul, ending a three-year Romney winning streak. No less an establishment conservative observer than the Wall Street Journal editorialist Dorothy Rabinowitz describes Paul’s followers as “conspiracy theorists, anti-government zealots, 9/11 truthers, and assorted other cadres of the obsessed and deranged.”

William Kristol dismissed the straw poll results as the youthful folly of Paul’s jejune college fans. William Bennett gingerly pooh-poohed Beck’s anti-G.O.P. diatribe. But in truth, most of the CPAC speakers, including presidential aspirants, were so eager to ingratiate themselves with this claque that they endorsed the Beck-Paul vision rather than, say, defend Bush, McCain or the party’s Congressional leadership. (It surely didn’t help Romney’s straw poll showing that he was the rare Bush defender.) And so — just one day after Stack crashed his plane into the Austin I.R.S. office — the heretofore milquetoast Minnesota governor, Tim Pawlenty, told the audience to emulate Tiger Woods’s wife and “take a 9-iron and smash the window out of big government in this country.”

Such violent imagery and invective, once largely confined to blogs and talk radio, is now spreading among Republicans in public office or aspiring to it. Last year Michele Bachmann, the redoubtable Tea Party hero and Minnesota congresswoman, set the pace by announcing that she wanted “people in Minnesota armed and dangerous” to oppose Obama administration climate change initiatives. In Texas, the Tea Party favorite for governor, Debra Medina, is positioning herself to the right of the incumbent, Rick Perry — no mean feat given that Perry has suggested that Texas could secede from the union. A state sovereignty zealot, Medina reminded those at a rally that “the tree of freedom is occasionally watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.”

In the heyday of 1960s left-wing radicalism, no liberal Democratic politicians in Washington could be found endorsing groups preaching violent revolution. The right has a different history. In the months before McVeigh’s mass murder, Helen Chenoweth and Steve Stockman, then representing Idaho and Texas in Congress, publicly empathized with the conspiracy theories of the far right that fueled his anti-government obsessions.

In his Times article on the Tea Party right, Barstow profiled Pam Stout, a once apolitical Idaho retiree who cast her lot with a Tea Party group allied with Beck’s 9/12 Project, the Birch Society and the Oath Keepers, a rising militia group of veterans and former law enforcement officers who champion disregarding laws they oppose. She frets that “another civil war” may be in the offing. “I don’t see us being the ones to start it,” she told Barstow, “but I would give up my life for my country.”

Whether consciously or coincidentally, Stout was echoing Palin’s memorable final declaration during her appearance at the National Tea Party Convention earlier this month: “I will live, I will die for the people of America, whatever I can do to help.” It’s enough to make you wonder who is palling around with terrorists now.
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:41 PM   #85
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wtf
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:06 PM   #86
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Frank Rich is great. Love his Sunday column.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:26 PM   #87
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The Tea Party movement has caused me to lose (what was left of) my faith in humanity as a whole.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:54 PM   #88
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what would have happened if this guy had been Muslim?

Quote:
Suspected gunman in Pentagon shooting acted alone, officials say

By Allison Klein, Clarence Williams and Debbi Wilgoren
Friday, March 5, 2010; 9:41 AM

The California man who calmly opened fire on two police officers at an entrance to the Pentagon Thursday appears to have acted alone and was not connected to any terrorist plot, Pentagon police chief Richard S. Keevill said.

The shooter, identified as 36-year-old John Patrick Bedell, was dressed in a business suit and carried two semiautomatic weapons and "many magazines" of ammunition, Keevill said. "He walked very directly to the officers and engaged," Keevill said.

Officers Jeffrey Amos and Marvin Carraway were superficially wounded, one in the shoulder and one in the thigh. Both were treated at George Washington University Hospital in Northwest Washington and released. They and a third officer returned fire at Bedell, critically wounding him in the head, said Keevill, chief of the Pentagon Force Protection Agency.

Bedell died at George Washington University Hospital.

Federal law enforcement sources identified the guns allegedly used by Bedell as a Sturm 9mm and a Taurus 9mm. Investigators are tracing the origins of the weapons and checking to see whether Bedell had permits for them.

Keevill said police and the FBI are examining surveillance video that shows Bedell as he approached the Pentagon, and have tracked his road trip to the Washington area from California over the past several weeks. Investigators located his car at a nearby parking garage and impounded it, and are processing the evidence found inside -- including more ammunition.

Police are looking at possible anti-government Internet postings by Bedell, Keevill said, and still trying to establish his motive for the attack at a doorway to the nation's defense headquarters -- one of the busiest, most prominent and closely guarded buildings in the Washington area.

"There are no indications at this point that there are any international or domestic connections to this incident at all," Keevill said. "At this time it appears to be a single individual that had issues."

No one else was injured in the incident, which police said unfolded in less than a minute.

certainly, Fort Hood was far more deadly and spectacular, but are we going to hear the same screams about gun control that we saw about "political correctness" and how it murdered soldiers?

one was a tragedy, this was a mostly prevented one -- the officers are fine, the gunman is dead -- yet we do learn a lot when white terrorists attack, and in my opinion, it provokes exactly the right response from the right and the left. but when someone's Muslim ... then we randomly invade sovereign nations and torture people.

another question: was there a white person we could have waterboarded to prevent either of these tragedies, the IRS plane and this gunman?
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:25 PM   #89
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...we randomly invade sovereign nations and torture people.
Blame America First boilerplate.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:41 PM   #90
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