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Old 01-27-2010, 08:18 PM   #1
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Howard Zinn - RIP

The American Peoples' voice is now silent.



Believe the history you were taught in school.

It does not matter it is not factual or even close to accurate.


Howard Zinn, historian who challenged status quo, dies at 87 - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:45 PM   #2
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I tried several times to read A People's History, and never made it more than a quarter of the way through it.

RIP.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:50 PM   #3
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^I've read it all but in chunks.

My students read the Robber Barons and Rebels chapter last week.

RIP
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:23 PM   #4
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We're reading a couple chapters from A People's History in a class of mine right now.

RIP
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:57 PM   #5
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I loved him.

RIP.

I had the honor of meeting him when the Voices of the People's History event came to my town. He was the kind of man who was more interested in hearing about you than talking about himself. A real gentleman.
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:08 PM   #6
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Put away the flags | The Progressive
Quote:
On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blesse

Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?
Quote:
We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.
This is the poison that has seeped into modern liberalism and the Democratic Party. It is why politics is now so polarized. We can't even agree that the American Ideal, history and character to be defended and preserved, not apologized for and fundamentally transformed.
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:19 PM   #7
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I wouldn't say we need to go as far as that first sentence in the first quote suggests, there's nothing wrong with having that stuff around and I don't find it bothersome at all. But there are a lot of things in that article I can't exactly disagree with.

Anywho, I, um, have never read A People's History-don't believe I'd ever even heard of it until now (though I'd heard Zinn's name before) . I'll work on fixing that now, though. Sounded like quite a fascinating guy, shame to hear this-rest in peace, Mr. Zinn .
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Put away the flags | The Progressive




This is the poison that has seeped into modern liberalism and the Democratic Party. It is why politics is now so polarized. We can't even agree that the American Ideal, history and character to be defended and preserved, not apologized for and fundamentally transformed.
Indy! I still think you're a good guy. You are certainly much easier to have a discussion with than Strongbow or even some of the liberal people here. But come on.

You must have missed all the flags at the Democratic National Convention.

Has Obama moved the flags from the White House?

Ordered Independence Day celebrations stopped?

Nancy Pelosi said this: Citizens of the empire: the struggle ... - Google Books

And a real America hating crazy, Robert Jensen, took exception.

Show me one person of influence in the Democratic Party who has said anything close to some of the crazier things Howard Zinn said.

This is what is wrong with your posts, you take one person, Howard Zinn, who is not anywhere near the views of the Democratic Party- either the platform or individual politicians- and tie his words around every Democrat's neck.

Howard Zinn was not a bad guy at all(I met him at many Pearl Jam/Eddie Vedder concerts I worked at) but he was a left wing radical, not a Democrat or a mainstream American liberal.

This was someone whose views were far, far to the left of anything Barbara Boxer or Bernie Sanders would ever advocate. He strongly disliked the politics of Kerry and Kennedy. I know many Democratic politicians in New England and I can assure you, Zinn was never a dinner guest.

I know you follow politics, so you know the difference. So the only option left is you are intentionally misleading.

There is most certainly uniform agreement on the preservation of the American ideal and character. Obama for one has argued eloquently for American ideals leading the world and made clear that we will continue to be the top military and economic power in the world.

No one is fundamentally transforming American ideals, and renouncing torture(which had never been used by America before) and rebuilding decades old alliances is not apologizing for American ideals, it is defending them.

Your post accusing those who disagree with you politically of lacking in respect for America is exactly why American politics are so polarized today. The Tea Party does the same thing to Obama, demonizes him to the point where any Republican working with him would be akin to working with the devil. This makes it hard to get anything done.

Washington was nowhere near as partisan a place until Gingrich and crowd came along.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:01 PM   #9
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^Smart guy, this U2387. Smart guy.

My country is like my family. I love my family, I want to see my family do well and thrive. I'm proud of my family. If I had to I'd die for my family, I would.

But that doesn't mean I think my family is always right.

And it doesn't meant that I think my family is better than your family.

Believing that doesn't "disrespect" my family, or my country.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:15 PM   #10
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This is the poison that has seeped into modern liberalism and the Democratic Party. It is why politics is now so polarized. We can't even agree that the American Ideal, history and character to be defended and preserved, not apologized for and fundamentally transformed.

"defended and preserved" or "lorded over all others and smooshed in their faces."

does it ever occur to you, INDY, that people in other countries are happy and wouldn't trade places with you, even if you threw in an SUV, a case of Bud, and Colts tickets?

why do you need not just to feel special, but superior?
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:21 PM   #11
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Thanks INDY for screwing up another thread.

Not believing in American Exceptionalism does not equal poison.

To Zinn's family. R.I.P.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:10 PM   #12
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^Smart guy, this U2387. Smart guy.
Thank you very much and right back at you!

I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:05 AM   #13
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Indy! I still think you're a good guy. You are certainly much easier to have a discussion with than Strongbow or even some of the liberal people here. But come on.

You must have missed all the flags at the Democratic National Convention.

Has Obama moved the flags from the White House?

Ordered Independence Day celebrations stopped?

Nancy Pelosi said this: Citizens of the empire: the struggle ... - Google Books

And a real America hating crazy, Robert Jensen, took exception.

Show me one person of influence in the Democratic Party who has said anything close to some of the crazier things Howard Zinn said.

This is what is wrong with your posts, you take one person, Howard Zinn, who is not anywhere near the views of the Democratic Party- either the platform or individual politicians- and tie his words around every Democrat's neck.

Howard Zinn was not a bad guy at all(I met him at many Pearl Jam/Eddie Vedder concerts I worked at) but he was a left wing radical, not a Democrat or a mainstream American liberal.

This was someone whose views were far, far to the left of anything Barbara Boxer or Bernie Sanders would ever advocate. He strongly disliked the politics of Kerry and Kennedy. I know many Democratic politicians in New England and I can assure you, Zinn was never a dinner guest.

I know you follow politics, so you know the difference. So the only option left is you are intentionally misleading.

There is most certainly uniform agreement on the preservation of the American ideal and character. Obama for one has argued eloquently for American ideals leading the world and made clear that we will continue to be the top military and economic power in the world.

No one is fundamentally transforming American ideals, and renouncing torture(which had never been used by America before) and rebuilding decades old alliances is not apologizing for American ideals, it is defending them.

Your post accusing those who disagree with you politically of lacking in respect for America is exactly why American politics are so polarized today. The Tea Party does the same thing to Obama, demonizes him to the point where any Republican working with him would be akin to working with the devil. This makes it hard to get anything done.

Washington was nowhere near as partisan a place until Gingrich and crowd came along.

Didn't Obama campaign they he was going to" bring about The fundenmental transformation of America" and then go on the world" I am soooo sorry tour? "
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:11 AM   #14
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"defended and preserved" or "lorded over all others and smooshed in their faces."

does it ever occur to you, INDY, that people in other countries are happy and wouldn't trade places with you, even if you threw in an SUV, a case of Bud, and Colts tickets?

why do you need not just to feel special, but superior?
"that people in other countries are happy and wouldn't trade places with you, "

So why are so many sneaking across the Border, in addition to the 30-40 million who already here ? Vacation? legit question I am sure it's not for the colts game . I think they would take the beer and SUV though . They take them here by the 100's every day
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:56 AM   #15
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Only heard about the guy last year. Just bought his book about US history since 1492 a couple of months ago.
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