How Obama got elected.......

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boosterjuice said:
How Obama Got Elected

Perfectly coordinated assault from the Obama PR camp and the mainstream media.
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It's no secret that with some clever editing you can make any group of voters look uninformed. But we didn't need clever editing to see that Palin was uninformed.

How Obama got elected? It's pretty easy. It's a combination of McCain shooting himself in the foot several times, McCain being the same party as Bush, and Obama being the canidate of sound judgement and better platform. Plus he ran a very clever campaign and got people to vote.

Pretty easy. :shrug:
 
512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

81.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)
 
boosterjuice said:
512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

81.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)
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Oh and this wasn't a biased survey at all now was it? Give me a fucking break.

Do we really want to get into how uninformed voters are? Do we really want to talk about how many McCain voters still think Obama's a Muslim, or that Iraq had to do with 9/11? Because you don't have to look too far, I can show you a list just here in FYM of how uninformed some McCain voters are...
 
wow.

this is the first time i've ever heard of Republicans saying that Democrats were too stupid to know any better.

usually this is how Democrats have explained the fact that George W. Bush got elected (more or less) twice.

i suppose we could talk about how 25% of Texans think that Obama is a Muslim, but, meh, whatever.
 
There is ignorance on both sides but the reason why McCain lost is because of the financial crisis being blamed on Republicans and it resonated. Most Americans look to the president for blame and have little notion of what elected representatives do in congress. That's how Bill Clinton could take credit for Contract with America and how Bush takes credit for the subprime loan fiasco. The concept of narrow framing is appropriate in politics because humans need to reduce their decisions to less complex and reductive issues to help make their decision. Often only one or two issues help people to make up their minds.
 
Well, McCain's responses when the crisis unfolded weren't too promising, so that voters didn't really have too much reason in trusting him to handle the crisis appropriately. Of course Bush was a factor and that the crisis is complex enough that the party wins that is better at shifting blame, but it doesn't give McCain a pass on how he acted as if he was panicking in the first week of the crisis' comeback.
 
purpleoscar said:
There is ignorance on both sides but the reason why McCain lost is because of the financial crisis being blamed on Republicans and it resonated.
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Well that and the fact that he looked like a bumbling idiot when the crisis hit, he just said the economy was sound a week before, he suspended his campaign to look like he was going to do something tough and then it ended up he didn't do much of anything, he admitted the economy was one of his weak points, it showed. :shrug:
 
The reason McCain lost is because when he fell behind in the polls in August, he resorted to desperate moves, like Palin. Even without the financial crisis, Obama wins this election. The tide was turning back his way, and all the crisis did was increase the margin of victory.
 
Zogby claims media bias in Obama victory

YouTube - Must watch! How Obama Got Elected.com "Informed" Obama voters


Zogby Statement on Ziegler poll




"We stand by the results our survey work on behalf of John Ziegler, as we stand by all of our work. We reject the notion that this was a push poll because it very simply wasn't. It was a legitimate effort to test the knowledge of voters who cast ballots for Barack Obama in the Nov. 4 election. Push polls are a malicious effort to sway public opinion one way or the other, while message and knowledge testing is quite another effort of public opinion research that is legitimate inquiry and has value in the public square. In this case, the respondents were given a full range of responses and were not pressured or influenced to respond in one way or another. This poll was not designed to hurt anyone, which is obvious as it was conducted after the election. The client is free to draw his own conclusions about the research, as are bloggers and other members of society. But Zogby International is a neutral party in this matter. We were hired to test public opinion on a particular subject and with no ax to grind, that's exactly what we did. We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion." - John Zogby
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UTICA, New York -- Just 2% of voters who supported Barack Obama on Election Day obtained perfect or near-perfect scores on a post election test which gauged their knowledge of statements and scandals associated with the presidential tickets during the campaign, a new Zogby International telephone poll shows.


Zogby Statement on Ziegler poll


Only 54% of Obama voters were able to answer at least half or more of the questions correctly.

The 12-question, multiple-choice survey found questions regarding statements linked to Republican presidential candidate John McCain and his vice-presidential running-mate Sarah Palin were far more likely to be answered correctly by Obama voters than questions about statements associated with Obama and Vice-President–Elect Joe Biden. The telephone survey of 512 Obama voters nationwide was conducted Nov. 13-15, 2008, and carries a margin of error of +/- 4.4 percentage points. The survey was commissioned by John Ziegler, author of The Death of Free Speech, producer of the recently released film "Blocking the Path to 9/11" and producer of the upcoming documentary film, Media Malpractice...How Obama Got Elected.
Click to expand...
 
boosterjuice said:
512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

81.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)
Click to expand...

Numbers don't lie.

<>
 
namkcuR said:
Give me a break. Read the link toscano posted to fivethrityeight.com. The article there explains exactly why this 'survey' is a joke.
Click to expand...

I did, and they try to casually dismiss it, but it is unconvincing.

Zogby is renowned for being Independent, actually he leans left on some occassions.

Zogby Statement on Ziegler poll




"We stand by the results our survey work on behalf of John Ziegler, as we stand by all of our work. We reject the notion that this was a push poll because it very simply wasn't. It was a legitimate effort to test the knowledge of voters who cast ballots for Barack Obama in the Nov. 4 election. Push polls are a malicious effort to sway public opinion one way or the other, while message and knowledge testing is quite another effort of public opinion research that is legitimate inquiry and has value in the public square. In this case, the respondents were given a full range of responses and were not pressured or influenced to respond in one way or another. This poll was not designed to hurt anyone, which is obvious as it was conducted after the election. The client is free to draw his own conclusions about the research, as are bloggers and other members of society. But Zogby International is a neutral party in this matter. We were hired to test public opinion on a particular subject and with no ax to grind, that's exactly what we did. We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion." - John Zogby



Quote:
Click to expand...
 
diamond said:


Numbers don't lie.

<>
Click to expand...

Oh look, an "Obama is a muslim" guy put this together, yup, it's real reliable......any LESS reliable and it'll be being posted in forums everywhere by right wingers obsessed with Obama's birth certificate.....oh...wait........

FiveThirtyEight.com: Politics Done Right


Still, if "numbers don't lie" I'm sure we can all agree that the more educated in society did indeed vote for Obama, I mean, must be true, these numbers are form an "intelligent design" site

Education: Obama%/McCain%

High School or less: 42/48
Some College: 41/52
College graduate: 46/49
Post graduate: 55/40
 
diamond said:
I did, and they try to casually dismiss it, but it is unconvincing.

Zogby is renowned for being Independent, actually he leans left on some occassions.
Click to expand...

Yes, and Zogby is also running a business. His polling company was paid, and paid very well, probably, to administer this man's questionable poll.

Zogby didn't make any "claims" about this poll, as you suggest, he merely ran it. It's up to this Zeigler dumbass who commissioned it to interpret the results. Zogby says as much in the statement of his that you posted.

There are so many reasons that this is a shoddy poll, and not representative of the American public at all. Zogby knows it, and that's why he made a public statement about it. He knows he's in for legitimate criticism over this, and he's trying to mitigate it.
 
Honest to God, you're willing to ignore the existence of statistical bias now, just because it means Obama might have won for the wrong reasons?

You're ... sad.
 
diamond said:
truth is a hard pill for some to swallow.

<>
Click to expand...

Uh, no, it's just a shitty, poorly done poll, plain and simple. I have grad level experience in statistics and research methods. This one is just plain bad, and proves very little.

I'm kind of surprised Zogby would involve himself with it, honestly. Like I said, $$. It's a business.
 
boosterjuice said:
512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

81.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)
Click to expand...

Notice every question that they got wrong was based in either public policy, obscure historical facts, and things that the republicans would have scored much worse in.

Such a biased survey.
 
dan_smee said:
Notice every question that they got wrong was based in either public policy, obscure historical facts, and things that the republicans would have scored much worse in.

Such a biased survey.
Click to expand...

Wasn't too difficult for most of us to pick up on. Not all of us, most of us.
 
The reason McCain lost is because of many things:

1. He clearly lost every debate that he was involved in, debating is about being calm and collected and stating your point clearly, he was not able to do this effectively.

2. He is out of touch with the majority of American's whether he would like to admit it or not. Anybody that has owned 12 houses in the past does not have the same wants nor needs of the average person.

3. He did not do enough to distance himself from Bush policy. Even most republicans would admit to the fact that the Bush reign of power was a disaster for their party not only from Bush himself but much of his cabinet.

4. The vast majority of people are tired of sinking money into a War in Iraq that either a. shouldn’t have started in the first place or b. should have been completed a long time ago. Over 2 trillion dollars has been spent their alone so far and this cost is still counting.

Obama hasn’t proven anything yet however people decided to give him the chance to change things that have happened. If he can do so it will be a victory but it is going to be a long tough road to dig out of what both the government as well as private business has done over the last 8 years.

After the last 8 years there is noplace to head but up even if its in small steps.

Republicans should blame the people that represent their beliefs for McCains loss this government had some of the widest and deepest spending in US history. This is not what Republican government is supposed to represent. One day they will get their chance again no doubt however they should take a long hard look at themselves as a party and their policys and get back to those basic principles.
 
I'll chime in.

In any survey, sometimes the numbers and results matter less than the questions asked. How were the questions phrased? Were they leading in any way? Were certain facts omitted in order to get the desired answer?

So looking at numbers, especially when the objectivity of the organization that commissioned the survey is called into question, sometimes does not tell the full story.
 
We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the problem. The way one asks questions and which questions get asked are fundamentally important to the outcome. It's the basics of statistics that you have to consider how a question gets asked, i.e. what words get used and how the sentence is structured, to determine the validity of a survey.
If they try to represent McCain voters as being intellectually superior to Obama voters then they should dare to present the same survey with McCain voters as respondents (with some questions, of course, more tweaked towards McCain specifics).
 
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