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Old 11-22-2008, 06:06 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Anyone have anything left besides "You're full of crap" and "I'm an expert on all known topics" to contribute, or should I just close this one? We're going in circles here.
I tried, yolland. For now, unless something new and worth replying to comes up (and I'm not holding my breath on that one...), I'm out.
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:12 PM   #182
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Do you prefer threads where only people on the "left" post?

yes only lefties... ban all ya righties fo life...
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:00 PM   #183
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Obama won the same way Clinton won in 1992.

Whenver the US economy is crap, American will put a Dem in the White House.

It's always been like that.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:04 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Anyone have anything left besides "You're full of crap" and "I'm an expert on all known topics" to contribute, or should I just close this one? We're going in circles here.
Is this the thread that had the ignore is good/ignore is bad mini-debate several days ago (or was it the Prop 8 one?)? I was going to put my two cents about that in, but I was too busy ignoring everyone to get around to it.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:57 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post

You are soooooooo full of crap.
Damn! I thought I was close to convincing you.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:02 PM   #186
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Anyone have anything left besides "You're full of crap" and "I'm an expert on all known topics" to contribute, or should I just close this one? We're going in circles here.
It could be worse. We could be talking in this thread:

Brandon Flowers takes credit for U2 album delay
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:14 PM   #187
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So I lied, I'm not out.

I found a couple of interesting articles with statements made by John Zogby regarding this poll. They're really worth reading in their entirety, but I'll post the relevant bits.

Zogby wont duplicate Obama poll - Mike Allen - Politico.com

Quote:
Zogby told Politico in a telephone interview that the volume of reaction was in the top 10 percent he had received to his 24 years of polling.

This week, Ziegler proposed to pay for a similar poll of McCain voters. But Zogby told Politico he will not do the poll the same way.

“I am happy to do a poll of both Obama voters and McCain voters, with questions that I formulated and sponsored either by an objective third party or by someone on the left, in tandem with a John Ziegler on the right — but poll questions that have my signature,” Zogby said.

“I believe there was value in the poll we did,” Zogby added. “I also believe it was not our finest hour. This slipped through the cracks. It came out critical only of Obama voters.”
The Numbers Guy : Zogby's Misleading Poll of Obama Voters

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During a campaign, pollsters can build credibility by forecasting election results accurately. Afterward, they can build revenue by using that credibility to attract private clients. These private surveys often have an agenda, and their numbers can’t be tested against an objective standard, such as votes. Such surveys can test pollsters’ standards of conduct.

...

But on Wednesday, Zogby told me he was on a book tour* when the contract was reached and when the survey was conducted, and wouldn’t have approved the poll in the form it took, or a press release posted on his firm’s Web site. “This was not Zogby International’s finest hour,” he said. “Something, somehow, fell through the cracks.” He said he would review the incident with his staff on Friday to determine what went wrong. Nonetheless, Zogby stood by the results of the poll themselves. “There is valuable information in this poll,” he said.

...

Zogby said he wouldn’t have approved the poll without including McCain supporters. “A more honest poll would have been conducted had we also focused on McCain people,” he said. He added that some of the questions weren’t worded fairly.

...

Between elections, Zogby has conducted research for online-gambling advocates that the head of a polling professional association told me was “loaded and biased,” and started a survey about voters’ concerns of potential corruption in a Hillary Clinton White House with the statement “Some people believe that the Bill Clinton administration was corrupt.”

Though Zogby has defended those surveys, he also admits that at times bad polls get through the firm’s safeguards. For instance, a 2001 poll sponsored by a liberal Web site told respondents that a candidate for a White House position had “pleaded guilty to the crime of lying to Congress,” then asked, “Do you think that someone who admitted to deceiving Congress should or should not be appointed to a top level White House position?” Not surprisingly, three-quarters of respondents said no. After Opinion Journal’s James Taranto criticized the question as “misleading and tendentious,” Zogby said, “I quickly backed off and apologized. It was a terrible question. It was wrong. These things do happen. We would like to believe they happen very rarely.”
So, Zogby has all but repudiated the poll, saying that the questions were unfairly worded, it "slipped through the cracks," he wouldn't have allowed it to be done in that form if he'd had been present when it was commissioned, and yet he says that it still "contains some valuable information?" I call BS, you can't have it both ways. He's trying to maintain some facade of professional integrity, but he just plain dropped the ball on this one, and he knows it.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:42 PM   #188
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YouTube - Brokaw and Rose Admit They Don't Know Much About Obama.

This hasn't been posted yet.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:00 PM   #189
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Yes it has.

2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread 13: Victory Lap
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:49 AM   #190
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Damn! I thought I was close to convincing you.
It would be nice someday when you actually have logic or sources...
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:56 AM   #191
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:57 PM   #192
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Here's why you guys won in a nutshell.:

I speak with having participated directly or indirectly in general elections since 1972 and having a principled intellect.

Other than one time since 1952 after 8 years in office-the country always has elected a different party to the Presidency.

Secondly-the economy will give the challenger a 7-10 point advantage if it is bad during the race. Look at Reagan/Carter. Look at GHB/Clinton .

37-38% of Americans are GOP
43-44% are Democrat

The rest are Independent or other 10-15%

The Independents usually vote the economy-no matter who the President is.

The economy was in the sh*tter due to the Fannie and Freddie mess (thank you Dems)-also the pro longed War on Terror-(thank you Republicans)

I congradulate Obama on his win, however given the circumstances based on national and economic conditions in collusion with the Dinosuar MSMedia: Borat, The Love Guru or Wayne Campbell and Garth Alger could have beaten John McCain.

If the economy was humming along like in 2004-05-you may not have won, but probably still would have based on the opening reasons in this post.

Sorry to have to douse the Obamatron's ecstasy party with a cold glass of reality, carry on.

<>
Freddie and Frannie were only 30% of the bad loans and thats common knowledge. Greed and deregulation was the cause of this mess.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:11 PM   #193
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Freddie and Frannie were only 30% of the bad loans and thats common knowledge. Greed and deregulation was the cause of this mess.
It shouldn't even be 30%. The rest of the bad debt had to do with greed and a lack of updated regulation to deal with futures and the packaging of loans. Also low interest rates for over a decade tempted people to borrow more which can start okay but when people borrow to the point their salaries are eaten up then the good loans start turning bad. If interest rates were raised during the boom period not so many people would be in debt trouble now. The cycle keeps repeating every so often because of priming of the pump too often.
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Old 11-27-2008, 04:05 PM   #194
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he got more votes than the other guy

/thread
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Old 11-27-2008, 05:03 PM   #195
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[thread]

because he ran a much better campaign.

[/thread]
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