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Old 08-17-2010, 06:45 PM   #121
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Honestly, I could see their discomfort. Really! I think parents fear more about pedophiles than terrorists hurting their children. It would be unfair to the priests who are genuinely good and would not even think to hurting a child, but with a few rotten apples making everyone look bad, sometimes its better safe than sorry.

Also BoMac, you might be aware that I am horrified by the actions, or lack of actions, the Church has done in response to the scandals. I'm even shopping around for a non-Catholic church to attend.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:52 PM   #122
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Honestly, I could see their discomfort. Really! I think parents fear more about pedophiles than terrorists hurting their children. It would be unfair to the priests who are genuinely good and would not even think to hurting a child, but with a few rotten apples making everyone look bad, sometimes its better safe than sorry.

Also BoMac, you might be aware that I am horrified by the actions, or lack of actions, the Church has done in response to the scandals. I'm even shopping around for a non-Catholic church to attend.
Fair enough. While understandable, do you feel that this fear is right, though? Or, would you prefer that this hypothetical Church be used to build bridges with whatever neighbourhood they choose to build in, rather than tear them down? Because this Islamic community centre can do just that and it's also an opportunity to show the world what the U.S. really stands for.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:57 PM   #123
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now this

Ground Zero Mosque On The Move? �
NY


who wins?
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:01 PM   #124
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Fair enough. While understandable, do you feel that this fear is right, though? Or, would you prefer that this hypothetical Church be used to build bridges with whatever neighbourhood they choose to build in, rather than tear them down? Because this Islamic community centre can do just that and it's also an opportunity to show the world what the U.S. really stands for.
Perhaps it isn't right to think the fear is OK. Perhaps this center could build bridges. But honestly, only time will tell. There are plenty of people in NYC who do not want this mosque. You probably heard of the Jewish organization, the Anti-Defamation League, is against the mosque. I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslims at this mosque extend their hands only to be rejected by non-Muslims.

I don't know what to think about this center, really. I just hope whatever happens, it works out for the best.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:05 PM   #125
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslims at this mosque extend their hands only to be rejected by non-Muslims.
And that is sad, sad, sad. It really saddens me to think that this would happen.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:11 PM   #126
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This is f'ing ridiculous. Seriously, there is nothing better for the bozos at Faux News to talk about that building an Islamic Community Center in Lower Manhattan? This is another fear tactic by the right to try to win seats in the midterm elections and it really, really makes me angry.

Maybe they should ban Japanese people from Pearl Harbor since it's insensitive.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:46 PM   #127
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Perhaps it isn't right to think the fear is OK. Perhaps this center could build bridges. But honestly, only time will tell. There are plenty of people in NYC who do not want this mosque. You probably heard of the Jewish organization, the Anti-Defamation League, is against the mosque. I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslims at this mosque extend their hands only to be rejected by non-Muslims.
The ADL, frankly, has a dodgy record in recent years. They started out with very good and noble aims but some of their recent campaigns seem to me to amount to calls for censorship. They shouldn't be assumed to represent the views of all American Jews.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:01 AM   #128
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I don't see how comparing what I said to building Catholic Churches near schools make any sense.


because the Catholic church has aided and abetted child abuse in ways far, far more pervasive than mosques have funded terrorism.

more kids have been raped by priests for the past 2,000 years than have innocents been killed by terrorists.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:24 AM   #129
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Funny, I brought up the very same argument about Catholic churches when I debated this with my family the other night.

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On the other hand, there is some legal precedent for depriving private property owners of building where they want because of the common good. You can't build a bar next to a school, for example, or a strip club near a church.
I've seen bars right near, next door to, even, churches. And for a while there for a time a pro-life poster was up on the side OF a bar, which my sister and I always found rather interesting.

There's also a bed and breakfast right next door to a funeral home here in town. I'm pretty sure that's not the view most people who stay at a bed and breakfast want to see out their window, but hey...

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Has the mosque four blocks from Ground Zero seen outbreaks of violence and racial hatred?
Haven't heard of anything of the sort, which makes me wonder why this one, which will be TWO blocks away, is getting all the fuss. If we can live with this when it's four blocks away, why is two such a big deal? It's still not right across the street or anything like that.

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but, suddenly, Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich are all over it. what they want is an issue driven by pure emotion in order to help their electoral chances in the fall. the GOP has been exploiting this tragedy since September 12, 2001, what with their phony "terror alerts/Code Orange" and holding the RNC convention in New York in 2004.
And that is perhaps what pisses me off the most about the Republican Party of the last decade. I'm sick to death of them calling people "un-American" and all that BS if we dare to support such measures as an Islamic center being built or disagree with the wars overseas or things of that nature. They're the ones who are exploiting tragedy for personal gain, and to me, that shows the utmost disrespect to those who died that day. Every time I hear those Republicans get on their high horse I want to tell them to shut the hell up.

Newt Gingrich isn't to be taken seriously anyway. He's said a load of dumb stuff over the years. And it's disappointing to see a Democrat, Reid, come out against this, too, but hey, he's gotta beat out a Republican (a hardcore Republican, too, from the sounds of it) in his state, so he's got to say what helps get him votes, regardless of whether or not he believes in what he says. So sad.

As for Obama, I'm glad he came out in support of the idea, but really, why does he need to be asked about it anyway? And why does he have to speculate on the "wisdom" of the project? No matter what he says, people have pretty much made up their minds one way or the other, so it's not like he's going to really sway anybody's viewpoint.

I also find it funny that government officials are so worried about how offensive this'll seem to people, 'cause I'm so sure our presence in certain areas of the Middle East isn't offensive to anyone there, right?

Angela
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:47 AM   #130
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It's being used for political purposes because of course Obama is really a Muslim and at the very least he's a Muslim sympathizer and soft on terrorism. All you have to do is read some of the articles about this on the internet and some of the comments and you see why some people are trying to use it for political gain.

As soon as he commented on this it was open season.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:02 AM   #131
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It's being used for political purposes because of course Obama is really a Muslim and at the very least he's a Muslim sympathizer and soft on terrorism. All you have to do is read some of the articles about this on the internet and some of the comments and you see why some people are trying to use it for political gain.

As soon as he commented on this it was open season.
Oh, you're certainly right about that, sadly. I just find the fact that we need to know his view funny-I know why people care, but I don't know why they need to care...if that makes any sort of sense . People make life way, way more complicated than it truly needs to be sometimes.

Angela
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:16 PM   #132
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Breitbart? Smart move there

politico.com Posted by Maggie Haberman 02:56 PM

August 17, 2010


An anti-mosque rally on 9/11

I'm one of the New York reporters who was within 10 blocks of ground zero when the second tower fell, and who covered rebuilding at the site for two years after Sept. 11, 2001, as a beat, and then on and off after — and I can say first-hand that there is usually a moratorium on political activity that day that's self-imposed.

So I was a bit surprised to see a rally being hosted by, among others, Pamela Geller, the conservative blogger who basically drove the mosque story off an initial New York Times story last December before the tabloids weighed in, on Sept. 11 this year, near the proposed mosque site.

The alert says that this is the list of confirmed speakers; 9/11 family members; former U. S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton; former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich; Dutch Parliamentarian and freedom fighter Geert Wilders; Gary Berntsen, a candidate for the U.S. Senate from New York; Jordan Sekulow of the American Center for Law and Justice, which has filed suit to stop the so-called ground zero mosque; Ginny Thomas, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife; Michael Grimm, a candidate for Congress from New York's 13th district and a Sept. 11 first responder; and blogger Andrew Breitbart.

I know that some opponents of the mosque may argue that this isn't a political rally because it's about this topic, but that's going to be a tough sell when Gingrich is listed as a speaker at the event.

UPDATE: Ben Smith has a Gingrich spokesman saying the former House speaker won't attend.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #133
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when does the Right not have a list of enemies?

how awful.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:32 PM   #134
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More conservatives showing their true colors... long live hate and bigotry, damnit celebrate your ignorance!!!
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #135
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From Liz Cheney's group Keep America Safe. I've heard of it but I don't exactly know what they do. I just shudder to think what will become of the anniversary this year and it just adds sadness on top of sadness for me. Obviously meaningless compared to the sadness of people who lost loved ones, but it does. Gives me a very uneasy feeling-that all of this is being exploited for political gain.

YouTube - KeepAmericaSafe.com: WE REMEMBER
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