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Old 09-17-2010, 06:25 PM   #301
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The introduction of Sharia law into both European and UK laws is well-documented and easily researchable --
Nathan, come on you're better than this...

I'm disappointed.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:04 PM   #302
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Would love to see those documents, either. Must have happened without any European noticing.

I can say for Germany, at least, that no such thing has happened. We had this nutcase of a judge once a couple years back who said she thought the cultural and religious background should be considered when ruling in cases of domestic violence etc., but that was it. Her very private opinion she stupidly uttered when ruling in a case of a woman fleeing her violent husband.

Other than that, no Sharia law provisions even being discussed.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:11 PM   #303
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His one of his intentions to come to New York was to join the Qur'an burnings.
nice to meet you.

there's an article in our local progressive/liberal weeekly newspaper on Gheert <sp?> which I have to finish reading.

while he has the right to be here and hold his rally.......... BLEAH...go away! Go home! What ? You don't want him either?

We have quite a few vicious bigots & rascist groups to deal with here in the USA , I also try to keep up wityh news around the world. I might have heard of him without knowing the name. I certainly have read enough about the rise of Neo-nazis & racist skin-heads ( I know not all skin-heads aere rascist) in Europe over the last ? 10 - 20 years.
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:45 AM   #304
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Finally, I don't know about the UK but at least some other European countries don't seem to be exactly primed to embrace Islam. Isn't it France that just banned wearing the head scarf for women?
That's kinda how I've understood it from the news reports I've heard, too, yeah.

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I kinda do. Yes, I know that she should know how touchy Islam can be about the Mohammed thing and if she did this to knowingly provoke people, that's kinda dumb and silly, but at the same time, sorry, people, free speech is a two-way street. You can be offended all you want at the suggestion of somebody drawing a picture of the Islamic leader, but she still should be allowed to do it if she so wishes, as should anyone else. It's just a picture, it's not worth issuing fatwas over. Islamic extremists have no problem publicly desecrating symbols that mean something to other cultures, so they should be prepared to expect the same in return.

Now, of course, free speech laws vary from country to country, and so how the UK would handle this, I'm not sure. But in my personal opinion, she has the right to draw the picture or urge others to do so if she wants to, and those who are freaking out about it would do well to settle down.

Angela
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:45 AM   #305
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Nathan, come on you're better than this...

I'm disappointed.
Revealed: UK&rsquo;s first official sharia courts - Times Online

Sharia law is spreading as authority wanes - Telegraph

Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge | Mail Online

Successful rally against Sharia law in UK – 21 Nov 2009 - One law for all

Happier?

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Originally Posted by maycocksean
If I understand you correctly you're saying that European nations have allowed Sharia "courts" if you will to exist parallel to the secular courts?
That is, in fact, what's happened in the UK.

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In other words religious matters can be resolved within the religion? Or are you saying that the laws that affect all citizens of the country are now informed by Sharia principles/beliefs. And what has been the result when Sharia and UK law have been in contradiction?
Sharia law in the UK has been specifically created to deal not just with religious matters, but also with domestic ones -- domestic abuse and divorce, specifically. In several documented cases, women who called the police because of accusations of domestic abuse later recanted when the local authorities turned the matter over to the Muslim courts.

Your point is well taken that Christians believe there are laws higher than those of man's. However, in a secular society, "divine law" (whatever the source) always takes a second position behind the laws that govern the nation. Are we saying now that this should not be the case?
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:02 AM   #306
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I kinda do. Yes, I know that she should know how touchy Islam can be about the Mohammed thing and if she did this to knowingly provoke people, that's kinda dumb and silly, but at the same time, sorry, people, free speech is a two-way street. You can be offended all you want at the suggestion of somebody drawing a picture of the Islamic leader, but she still should be allowed to do it if she so wishes, as should anyone else. It's just a picture, it's not worth issuing fatwas over. Islamic extremists have no problem publicly desecrating symbols that mean something to other cultures, so they should be prepared to expect the same in return.

Now, of course, free speech laws vary from country to country, and so how the UK would handle this, I'm not sure. But in my personal opinion, she has the right to draw the picture or urge others to do so if she wants to, and those who are freaking out about it would do well to settle down.

Angela
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
Sharia law in the UK has been specifically created to deal not just with religious matters, but also with domestic ones -- domestic abuse and divorce, specifically. In several documented cases, women who called the police because of accusations of domestic abuse later recanted when the local authorities turned the matter over to the Muslim courts.

Your point is well taken that Christians believe there are laws higher than those of man's. However, in a secular society, "divine law" (whatever the source) always takes a second position behind the laws that govern the nation. Are we saying now that this should not be the case?
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:12 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
Revealed: UK&rsquo;s first official sharia courts - Times Online

Sharia law is spreading as authority wanes - Telegraph

Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge | Mail Online

Successful rally against Sharia law in UK – 21 Nov 2009 - One law for all

Happier?



That is, in fact, what's happened in the UK.



Sharia law in the UK has been specifically created to deal not just with religious matters, but also with domestic ones -- domestic abuse and divorce, specifically. In several documented cases, women who called the police because of accusations of domestic abuse later recanted when the local authorities turned the matter over to the Muslim courts.

Your point is well taken that Christians believe there are laws higher than those of man's. However, in a secular society, "divine law" (whatever the source) always takes a second position behind the laws that govern the nation. Are we saying now that this should not be the case?
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From The Telegraph Article: Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
Arbitration "tribunals", as they are called here, are a very old tradition in many European countries (also, mind you, Great Britain is not Europe, as much as Germany or Sweden or Italy aren't Europe. They are countries within Europe. So what happens in GB does not necessarily happen in Europe) which work beside the courts. Usually, so called ombudsman are employed to handle these cases. As mentioned in the article, both parties have to agree to take it before such a tribunal. Otherwise, it will go to a regular court.
I don't know of any European country, and neither of the EU, planning on introducing Sharia law into their domestic laws.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:25 PM   #308
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There does seem to be some (or quite a bit) of push back against Islam in some European Countries.

Recent events in Sweden support this premise.

Burqa-clad mothers rob Swedish pensioner in attack ad | FP Passport


Sweden's far-right party secured 20 seats in the country's parliament in general elections over the weekend, the first time ever that it had won even a single seat.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:11 AM   #309
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Your point is well taken that Christians believe there are laws higher than those of man's. However, in a secular society, "divine law" (whatever the source) always takes a second position behind the laws that govern the nation. Are we saying now that this should not be the case?
Most certainly not. To be clear, I'm not arguing in support of Sharia law being incorporated into the secular laws of a country. I'm questioning the validity of your claim that this it is actually happening in Europe. . .well, okay Great Britain any way. I think someone--not necessarily you, but perhaps your source(s)--is spinning what's happened. It's late and I haven't had a chance to review the links you posted. But I will take a look at them.

And I do feel that there's somewhat of a double standard here. Are you equally as concerned about the Christians lobbying to get the 10 Commandments on the walls of our courthouses or prayers in our public schools? Or the Chrisitans working to make abortion illegal regardless of the cost to women? Do these attempts to get Christian law enshrined in our legal system concern you as well? Is it really that it's religious law being mixed with secular that concerns you or is it more that it's "bad" religious ideas (as opposed to "good" ones) being incorporated in Great Britain that concerns you.

I've been a long time supporter of a strict seperation of church and state (which means I often come across as much more liberal than my actual practice of my faith reflects), so I have no problem arguing agaisnt mixing ANY kind of religious law with secular law. What's your stance?
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:54 AM   #310
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I do feel that there's somewhat of a double standard here. Are you equally as concerned about the Christians lobbying to get the 10 Commandments on the walls of our courthouses or prayers in our public schools? Or the Christians working to make abortion illegal regardless of the cost to women? Do these attempts to get Christian law enshrined in our legal system concern you as well? Is it really that it's religious law being mixed with secular that concerns you or is it more that it's "bad" religious ideas (as opposed to "good" ones) being incorporated in Great Britain that concerns you.
I honestly could care less about whether the Ten Commandments are inscribed on the walls of a courthouse, whether there's a Nativity scene on the city hall lawn, or whether there's prayer in public schools (as a friend of mine once said, as long as there are exams in school, there will be prayer in school). I agree with you that consistency is the key thing, and I do find it intriguing that some of the same FYMers who are so keen on protecting America from becoming a theocracy -- at least as it applies to Christianity -- are turning a blind eye to the equal threat that sharia law poses, particularly in the creation of a separate legal system. Islamofascism carries as much potential threat as Christofascism; both require equal vigilance.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:12 AM   #311
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and I do find it intriguing that some of the same FYMers who are so keen on protecting America from becoming a theocracy -- at least as it applies to Christianity -- are turning a blind eye to the equal threat that sharia law poses, particularly in the creation of a separate legal system.
And where are these FYMers?

I'm sorry, but you haven't presented a very strong case.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:23 AM   #312
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I honestly could care less
couldn't


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Old 09-22-2010, 12:38 PM   #313
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And where are these FYMers?

I'm sorry, but you haven't presented a very strong case.
I didn't realize I was making one.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:15 PM   #314
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couldn't


That, thank you.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:21 PM   #315
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I didn't realize I was making one.
Oh, so the whole sharia law thing was a joke?

Good one...
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