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Old 05-28-2010, 09:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Is a McDonald's in El Salvador offensive?
Yes.

but then Mickey D's is an offense anywhere. . .


Seriously though, with all due respect to Pearl, I think this reflects a very basic bias that many of us carry towards Muslims. We tend to define the 9/11 terrorists by their religion and/or ethnicity.

Yet if a Christian group decided to build a church near the Alfred Murrah building in Oklahoma City therre would be no outcry at all. We categorize Timothy McVeigh and his group as a couple of extremists unconnected to any larger mainstream religious or ethnic group regardless of whatever claims to legitmacy they may have had. I think the 9/11 bombers and their like belong in the same category.

That said, if I were a Muslim and on the building committee for the mosque, I would have pushed for a different location, because I know a lot of people wouldn't understand. I wouldn't care to trample on people's grief, even if it wasn't intentional.

BTW, A_W, your arguments on the subject don't count in my mind because you think little of religion as a whole anyway.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:27 PM   #17
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It's a question of the associations in peoples minds, I don't think that it's wrong for people to make associations between Islam and terrorism, or Catholicism and the inquisition (or more pressingly rape cover-ups), or Pentecostals and Hillsong.

The point was that we should not make the association between Islam and Bin Ladenism, I don't see why not.

The mosque should be built, I don't see anything wrong with people being allowed to practice their religion.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:28 PM   #18
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Is a McDonald's in El Salvador offensive?
I'm leaning towards yes, I don't eat there for environmental and ethical reasons.
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:55 PM   #19
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I was in Istanbul for work least week
and the mosques I visited felt more peaceful than the majority of churches I've visited in my life
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Old 05-29-2010, 04:49 PM   #20
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A mosque near Ground Zero is insensitive? So, building a new church around the corner of a kindergarten or playground would be insensitive too, because all priests are paedophiles as well as all muslims are terrorists...

I think people who talk about 'insensitivity' when a mosque is build two blocks from the Ground zero site are (secretly) prejudiced.

I'm sorry that it seems to be blurted out and shortsighted, but seeing and experiencing the political climate today, especially where I live, that's my view.
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:51 PM   #21
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Thank you for calling me prejudiced, Bonoa.

I am not prejudiced or racist or a bigot in anyway. Just because I feel a mosque near the WTC site would bring back memories of 9/11 does not mean I feel Muslims are inferior or actually believe they are all terrorists. I stated it before and I'll state it again: I do not think all Muslims are terrorists or sympathize with terrorists.

Maybe when Muslim terrorists kill 3,000 in a single day on Dutch soil someday, you would understand.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Just because I feel a mosque near the WTC site would bring back memories of 9/11...
I don't know if there's going to be a monument or something at the site, but I'm pretty sure people are going to be reminded of 9/11 when they walk by.

It's just a mosque, nothing more and nothing less. No reason to ban it from the area.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:06 PM   #23
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Even here in the Netherlands these conservative idiots led by Geert Wilders are making a fuss about that.
Wilders' numbers are dropping in the polls, he could do with a nice controversy even if he has to cross the Atlantic to find one.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:20 PM   #24
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I don't know if there's going to be a monument or something at the site, but I'm pretty sure people are going to be reminded of 9/11 when they walk by.
Yeah, true.

Quote:
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It's just a mosque, nothing more and nothing less. No reason to ban it from the area.
Maybe I am getting worked up over nothing. It probably would've been built sooner or later.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:42 AM   #25
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Thank you for calling me prejudiced, Bonoa.

I am not prejudiced or racist or a bigot in anyway. Just because I feel a mosque near the WTC site would bring back memories of 9/11 does not mean I feel Muslims are inferior or actually believe they are all terrorists. I stated it before and I'll state it again: I do not think all Muslims are terrorists or sympathize with terrorists.

Maybe when Muslim terrorists kill 3,000 in a single day on Dutch soil someday, you would understand.
I understand you, my reaction was kind of radical. 911 was a very sad event, but still it's wrong to think of 'terrorist' when you hear the word 'Muslim', while the majority wants to distance themselves from the radicals.
I don't think you're a bigot or a racist, but I get so tired of people here in NL who mix up muslims with terrorists as these terrorists can hardly be called muslims...

And then there is that bleach blonde idiot who calls himself a fighter for 'freedom of speech', while he wants to live that freedom thouroughly by taking away people's right to choose their own religion and tries to divide the society in order to get votes.

Maybe you'll understand if you lived here in the Netherlands.
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:02 PM   #26
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building a new church around the corner of a kindergarten or playground would be insensitive too, because all priests are paedophiles as well as all muslims are terrorists...
they have a more efficient model
they have schools on the church sites
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I am not prejudiced or racist or a bigot in anyway. Just because I feel a mosque near the WTC site would bring back memories of 9/11 does not mean I feel Muslims are inferior or actually believe they are all terrorists. I stated it before and I'll state it again: I do not think all Muslims are terrorists or sympathize with terrorists.

Maybe when Muslim terrorists kill 3,000 in a single day on Dutch soil someday, you would understand.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but these two paragraphs feel contradictory to me.

I do not think this should even be an issue, because the mosque could be used to help educate and help bridge the divide between Muslims and the general population.

It can be used as a tool for peace, for understanding.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:50 AM   #28
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Think Progress � Former Bush Adviser Mark McKinnon Rips GOP’s Stance On Mosque: ‘We’re Reinforcing Al Qaeda’s Message’

Former Bush Adviser Mark McKinnon Rips GOP’s Stance On Mosque: ‘We’re Reinforcing Al Qaeda’s Message’

On Morning Joe earlier today, a pair of leading Republicans — host Joe Scarborough and former Bush strategist Mark McKinnon — blasted the GOP for its xenophobic and unconstitutional stance against American Muslims’ right to build a new Islamic center in lower Manhattan.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has claimed that the new Islamic center project “would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum.” Referencing that quote, Scarborough expressed angry disdain at Gingrich’s intolerance. “I don’t know where to begin,” Scarborough said. “To suggest that someone trying to build a tolerance center for moderate Muslims in New York is the equivalent of killing six million Jews is stunning to me.”

McKinnon then chimed in, arguing that the debate surrounding the Cordoba House project is contrary to his party’s principles. “We may get our membership [by the GOP] revoked,” McKinnon joked. “Screw ‘em,” Scarborough responded. McKinnon then said that the GOP’s stance is “reinforcing al Qaeda’s message”:

McKINNON: Usually Republicans are forthright in defending the Constitution. And here we are, reinforcing al Qaeda’s message that we’re at war with Muslims. So we’ve got this issue; then we’ve got the 14th Amendment issue, where Republicans are saying you’re not welcome here, when we were the architects of the 14th Amendment. So, I see a bad pattern where we’re headed as a Republican Party.

McKinnon said he believed President Obama has “done the right thing in stepping forward at this time on this issue.” He added, “Tolerance means tolerating things you don’t like, especially when you don’t like them. … I respect the President for making this move.”

Writing in the Washington Post today, former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson — using Bush-era terminology — reinforced McKinnon’s view. “Those who want a president to assert that any mosque would defile the neighborhood near Ground Zero are asking him to undermine the war on terrorism. A war on Islam would make a war on terrorism impossible,” Gerson writes.

This morning, Scarborough remarked that when he first entered Congress in 1994, he was deemed to be some “crazy,” “right wing nut job” for his ideological views. He explained that, while he still holds “the same views,” he is “feeling further and further distant from the people who are running my party.”
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:49 PM   #29
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^Credit where credit is due. Good for them!

Somewhere though, Obama is gritting his teeth and saying: "Not fair! How come they get to say it but I don't!"
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Maybe when Muslim terrorists kill 3,000 in a single day on Dutch soil someday, you would understand.
Understand that we should unfairly treat innocent people because some nutjobs who claim the same religion did something bad? That we should single out one religion above others as not worthy of the same kinds of religious freedoms we're supposed to be fighting for? That we should, as the above posted article says, perpetuate the incredibly harmful perception that we're in a war against Muslims and not just those who actually committed crimes against us?
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