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Old 08-19-2010, 01:15 AM   #136
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Yeah, here's a wee bit of a newsflash, Liz Cheney et al: We remember, too. It's shocking, I know.

That video and the proposed date for the little "assembly" makes me mad on so many levels. Like I said before: Shut. The. Hell. Up.

(That's directed towards the politicians and the BS "we're keeping America safe" group. Not towards the actual people who lost loved ones that day-my heart goes out to them . It's shameful they've been exploited like this)

Angela
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:04 AM   #137
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Dutch Parliamentarian and freedom fighter Geert Wilders
Freedom fighter
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:40 AM   #138
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this issue is the biggest nonsense distraction of the year. it has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING, and it proves, again, that the GOP is more than willing to kick a Muslim in order to scare up a few votes (not from lower Manhattan, either).

if people in the neighborhood, or, indeed, family members of the people who were killed on 9-11, wish to protest this center as people often protest a Wal-Mart, they are free to do so. i can even understand why some might find this inappropriate.

but the politicization of this issue is just about the most disgusting thing in politics i've seen in a while, and it goes hand-in-hand with protests of other mosques across the country, from Tennessee to Temeculah. it's bigotry, pure and simple, and it shocks me that Newt Gingrich can go on TV and compare Muslims to Nazis.

fuck you, Newt. and fuck you, Palin. go back to the same sewer from whence you came and continue to commune with the ghost of Joe McCarthy.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:28 PM   #139
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AOL News

(Aug. 19) -- Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, using the words "hatred," "anger" and "pain," turned up his rhetoric today against plans for building an Islamic center two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks.

Although he acknowledged the legal and constitutional rights of Muslims to build the mosque near ground zero, he said in an NBC "Today" show interview that the question was not whether the development should go ahead but rather one of "sensitivity and people's feelings."

Giuliani also had strong words for the imam who would lead the mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, saying that if he portrays himself as a healer "then you don't go forward with this project," but that if you are "a warrior, then you do."

He added, "If you going to so horribly offend the people who were most directly offended by this" -- the families of the 9/11 victims -- then "how are you healing?"

Giuliani, who won praise for his leadership after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, said the imam was a man who was "selling sensitivity," but that "you don't do it by creating this kind of vicious, sort of angry battle that's going on."

The imam, who is seen as a controversial figure even among U.S. Muslims, has on occasion criticized Islam and has spent a lot of his career working closely with Christians and Jews to try to advance interfaith understanding.

Calling plans for the development divisive, Giuliani said: "This project is creating tremendous pain for people who've already made the ultimate sacrifice. All you're doing is creating more division, more anger, more hatred."

When show host Matt Lauer said some would say that the angry battle was being created by those weighing in on the project, Giuliani replied: "They're all wrong."

Giuliani's interview came only two days after The Washington Post opinion writer Jonathan Capehart wondered why Giuliani had remained silent since making similar criticisms of the project in a conservative radio talk show last month.

"Maybe Giuliani is too busy enjoying the summer in the Hamptons to jump back into the muddy puddle the 'mosque' controversy has become," Capehart wrote.

But Giuliani, who ran a failed presidential campaign in 2008 that relied largely on promoting his 9/11 leadership role, was never one to flee from the spotlight.

And perhaps spurred -- even upset -- by the Capehart remarks, Giuliani made it clear today that he supported New York Gov. David Paterson's proposal to move the mosque to a site farther away from ground zero.

Paterson told Larry King on CNN that "if people put their heads together, maybe we could find a site that's away from the site now but still serves the ... area. That would be a noble gesture to those who live in the area who suffered after the attack on this country, and at the same time would probably in many ways change a lot of people's minds about Islam, which is really a peaceful religion practiced by peace-loving people."

Giuliani's words put him in direct opposition to the views of New York City's present mayor, Michael Bloomberg, who has come out strongly in support of the project, saying cancellation of the project would be a "sad day for America."

President Barack Obama also came out in support of the mosque last week, but faced with strong Republican criticism, he reframed his remarks on Saturday to say he was not endorsing the project near ground zero but trying to "treat everybody equally" regardless of their religion.

"I was not commenting, and I will not comment, on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there," he said.

According to a Gallup survey, 41 percent of Americans have no opinion of Obama's comments, but of those who do, opponents outnumber supporters of the project. The survey, published Wednesday, found two in three of those polled said they were paying a great deal (34 percent) or a fair amount (32 percent) of attention to the controversy surrounding the project.

Among those offering help with the issue is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church in New York, Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan.

In an impromptu news conference on Wednesday he said he was ready to help mediate between those who support the mosque and those who are opposed.

During his comments, he invoked the example of Pope John Paul II, who in 1993 ordered Catholic nuns to move from their convent at the former Auschwitz Nazi death camp after Jewish leaders protested.

The same reference to Pope John Paul's decision was made by Giuliani today during his NBC interview.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:31 PM   #140
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Interesting, because I have been thinking about this

What Would George W. Bush Do About Ground Zero Mosque?

But amid all the overheated rhetoric, some may wonder what former President George W. Bush might say about all this.

For now, nothing.

A spokesman for the former president told AOL News that Bush would have no comment on the matter.

But days after the 9/11 attacks, Bush had much to say about the need for religious tolerance even after Islamic extremists carried out the worst foreign attack in history on U.S. soil.

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam," Bush said at the Islamic Center of Washington in a speech that set the tenor for when he later sent U.S. troops to fight on Muslim soil in Afghanistan and later Iraq. "That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

He went on to say, in words that Democrats who disagreed with Bush on nearly every issue now recall fondly, that despite raw emotions, millions of American Muslims "need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect."

American Muslims who protested the Bush administration's treatment of detainees at the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, say they long for the former president to speak out against the rhetoric of his fellow Republicans.

"President Bush would have said more or less the same thing as President Obama, only President Bush wouldn't have come under attack from extremists for saying so," Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told AOL News. "Any leader has to take a position based on principle and not on a sense of mob rule."

Hooper accused elected officials like House Minority Leader John Boehner -- who called the proposed mosque "deeply troubling, as is the president's decision to endorse it" -- of trying to score "cheap political points based on hysteria and Islamophobia."
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:56 PM   #141
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Giuliani, who won praise for his leadership after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, said the imam was a man who was "selling sensitivity," but that "you don't do it by creating this kind of vicious, sort of angry battle that's going on."
Exactly who is "creating this kind of vicious, sort of angry battle" here?
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Old 08-19-2010, 06:15 PM   #142
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Exactly who is "creating this kind of vicious, sort of angry battle" here?


the people who are the real bigots -- the Muslims.

don't you know? like how our black president is the real racist, and people opposed to everything Palin are the real sexists.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:43 PM   #143
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Giuliani also had strong words for the imam who would lead the mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, saying that if he portrays himself as a healer "then you don't go forward with this project," but that if you are "a warrior, then you do."
WTF...by supporting this the guy's officially a warrior now? Seriously?

Let's take a look at the description of this imam:

Quote:
The imam, who is seen as a controversial figure even among U.S. Muslims, has on occasion criticized Islam and has spent a lot of his career working closely with Christians and Jews to try to advance interfaith understanding.
Ooooh. Sounds truly terrifying, he does. Mmhm. Gotta be careful of those people who try and be all NICE about their interaction with other faiths, after all, they've obviously got some sort of ulterior motive.

Besides, isn't Giuliani the one where there was that fundraiser that had the whole $9.11 thing going on? Shove it, Rudy, you obnoxious twit. You have absolutely no moral ground to stand on here. None whatsoever. For crying out loud, freakin' Bush Jr. got the message after 9/11.

Angela
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:55 AM   #144
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From today's New York Post (owned by NewsCorp, Rupert Murdoch/Fox)...

Imam's wife 'won't cave' on Ground Zero mosque, blames GOP - m.NYPOST.com
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:06 PM   #145
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this issue is the biggest nonsense distraction of the year. it has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING, and it proves, again, that the GOP is more than willing to kick a Muslim in order to scare up a few votes (not from lower Manhattan, either).
I've spent the last 2+ months abroad so forgive me if I've missed something but has America managed to solve all of its big, important problems in the meantime so that this has become the pressing issue of the day?

I mean, it must be some kind of utopia down there if THIS is what occupies the minds and time of people like Giuliani, Palin, and the media in general.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:36 PM   #146
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Daily Show had a fantastic bit on this yesterday.

Extremist Makeover - Homeland Edition - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/19/2010 - Video Clip | Comedy Central
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:52 PM   #147
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Diemen beat me to it. Hilarious. Jon struck the right note.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:08 PM   #148
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Haha, I saw that last night. Absolutely brilliant . Can we pass that message on to the politicians?

Angela
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:12 PM   #149
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I mean, it must be some kind of utopia down there if THIS is what occupies the minds and time of people like Giuliani, Palin, and the media in general.
Haven't you heard? The Iraq war is over, so they have to find something new to focus on/complain about.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:31 PM   #150
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I'm a liberal Democrat, but I understood the conservative view on the Iraq war. I understand their stance on immigration, taxes, the economy, healthcare. I disagree with most of them, but I see their point.

It's similar to the difference between Catholics and Protestants. We all want the same thing; we just have different ideas on the best way to get there.

But I absolutely cannot understand how a person with a basic understanding of our Constitution and, as Bono puts it, the IDEA of America, could possibly take the anti-mosque stance. Clearly, the conservative politicians and pundits know better. They're just stirring up the ignorant masses. That much is clear.

But why do SO MANY good people fall for it??!!!!!!!! I heard someone say the other day that it'll be OK to build a Mosque at Ground Zero when a church is built in Saudi Arabia. Really??? So Saudi Arabia is our standard for religious freedom and tolerance? I thought we were better than that. But maybe we're not.

American conservatives so often love to point out how great this country is. And it is! But every issue that comes up, from personal freedom issues to Habeas Corpus to torture to religious tolerance, it seems they want to dismantle our greatness piece by piece.
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