Honduras: Democratically elected president overthrown - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-10-2009, 01:57 PM   #46
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:34 PM
They also held him at gunpoint and forced him to sign a resignation letter. This letter wasn't even used in the decree with which they stripped him of his position even though they had paraded the letter and its contents around the media. Absurd.
__________________

__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2009, 04:12 PM   #47
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
TThey claimed at the time that they'd offered him the option of resigning and leaving the country rather than going on trial (he denies this), but they have no authority to make such an offer in the first place: could you imagine our government giving a President possibly guilty of impeachable crimes an option to just leave the country for good instead, to avoid being tried? This is why their actions have been roundly condemned by other governments around the world.
An impeachment trial would have made sense, I agree.

I don't think it's anyone's business in any government outside of Honduras to take sides. We saw what happened in Iran, didn't we?
__________________

__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #48
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:34 PM
I think it's a very important thing that other governments take sides. Someone's got to demand order and in this country the people in charge do what they feel like and always feel it's ok to wipe their asses with the law.

I'm glad someone else has stepped in.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 03:41 PM   #49
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownEyedBoy View Post
I think it's a very important thing that other governments take sides. Someone's got to demand order and in this country the people in charge do what they feel like and always feel it's ok to wipe their asses with the law.

I'm glad someone else has stepped in.
Sovereign nations know their political situations better than foreign governments do.

I thought Iran's elections were a sham. I think Ahmadinejad is needlessly hostile to Israel and the West. But without any desire to show any military strength, condemnation alone bears little weight.

Ron Paul was the sole dissenter on a weightless resolution condemning the Iranian elections and the crackdown on dissent that followed it. I think he had good reasoning in his dissent:
Quote:
I rise in reluctant opposition to H Res 560, which condemns the Iranian government for its recent actions during the unrest in that country. While I never condone violence, much less the violence that governments are only too willing to mete out to their own citizens, I am always very cautious about "condemning" the actions of governments overseas. As an elected member of the United States House of Representatives, I have always questioned our constitutional authority to sit in judgment of the actions of foreign governments of which we are not representatives. I have always hesitated when my colleagues rush to pronounce final judgment on events thousands of miles away about which we know very little. And we know very little beyond limited press reports about what is happening in Iran.

Of course I do not support attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people, but when is the last time we condemned Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the many other countries where unlike in Iran there is no opportunity to exercise any substantial vote on political leadership? It seems our criticism is selective and applied when there are political points to be made. I have admired President Obama's cautious approach to the situation in Iran and I would have preferred that we in the House had acted similarly.

I adhere to the foreign policy of our Founders, who advised that we not interfere in the internal affairs of countries overseas. I believe that is the best policy for the United States, for our national security and for our prosperity. I urge my colleagues to reject this and all similar meddling resolutions.
The same principle can be applied here.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2009, 03:04 PM   #50
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:34 PM
I do agree that perhaps they aren't aware about the most of the things that happen.

The problem is we do have laws that could accuse our president of illegal action. They did not follow that course of action under the basis that removing him out of country was the lesser of two evils because, under someone in the government's opinion, his followers would probably mob the prison in which he would've been held.

What I do appreciate about other countries is that virtually unanimous condemnation of taking the government by force. If there weren't other countries to regulate that or even watch over that then Honduras' law would be as simple as natural selection: survival of the fittest. Is that true justice?

I believe that a democracy should be enforced and protected through MORE democracy. NEVER through a coup. There should be no exceptions for this.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 09:14 AM   #51
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution:

Quote:
No citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President. Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years.
I'm not aware of anything in the Honduran Constitution that provides for an impeachment trial.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 12:54 PM   #52
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:34 AM
Nope, there isn't; that's a bewildering oversight in their Constitution that's been much-discussed on account of this. However, all that means is that the Supreme Court would thus have the power--and the duty--to hold a trial to determine whether the President has committed crimes for which they may remove him from office. (Or alternatively, since their Constitution doesn't explicitly assign authority to remove a President from office to any one branch, I suppose in principle they could permit the legislature to hold impeachment proceedings; it's just that they'd kind of have to make the process up as they go along.) But, again, the Court never did that; instead they ordered the military to summarily boot him out of the country, something they DON'T have the constitutional authority to do. It's questionable whether they could convict Zelaya under Article 239, since that would require hard evidence of his plans to change the term-limit provisions specifically. However, he did inarguably defy the earlier Court order forbidding him from carrying out his 'non-binding public opinion poll' on whether to have citizens vote (during next November's elections) to convene a constitutional convention. So they probably could have found cause to remove him from office (not from the country) simply by trying him for defying that order. It's pretty damning that they didn't try.

Quote:
ARTICLE 102.- No Honduran can be expatriated nor handed over to the authorities of a foreign country.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 05:58 AM   #53
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Isn't Article 102 for crimes committed against a foreign government?
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 06:19 AM   #54
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Title II, Chapter 3: (citizens)

Article 42: The legal rights of any citizen is lost:

5) If the citizen incites, promotes, or supports the continuance or the re-election of the President of the Republic;

Title II, Chapter 4: (executive power)

Article 238: In order to become the President of the Republic or designated to the Presidency, one must:

3) Be in possesion of a citizen's legal rights;

Article 239: A citizen who has previously held executive power can not be President or designated to the Presidency. Those that break this provision or propose reform of this provision, as well as those that help directly or indirectly, will immediately cease to hold and exercise the power of his/her post, and will be banned from holding any future public office for a period of ten years.

Article 244: If need be, the lawful duty of the President of the Republic, or of its substitute, will be presented to the President of the National Congress if in session, and if not to the President of the Supreme Court.

Article 272: The Armed Force of Honduras is a permanent National Institution, essentially professional, a-political, obedient, and undeliberate. It is constituted to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Republic, to maintain the peace, public order, protect the Constitution, the principles of free suffrage, and the changeability of the President of the Republic.

Article 278: The orders that tie the powers of the President of the Republic to the Armed Forces, through its Chief, shall be followed and exercised.

Article 373: Constitutional reform can only be declared by the National Congress, in regular sessions, with a 2/3s vote of its members. The decree to be voted on will specify the article or articles to be reformed, and it must be concurred by the subsequent session of Congress by a 2/3s vote before it takes effect.

Article 374: It can not be reformed, under any circumstances, the previous article, this article, the Constitutional articles related to the form of government, the national territory, Presidential term-limits, the prohibition of a President to be re-elected, and the requirements and prohibitions on who can and can not be President.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 04:13 PM   #55
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
It's questionable whether they could convict Zelaya under Article 239, since that would require hard evidence of his plans to change the term-limit provisions specifically.


^
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #56
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:34 AM
And again, Mac, none of those justify throwing him out of the country without a trial. As for Article 102, it's not qualified by offense type in the document.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2009, 04:43 PM   #57
The Fly
 
jvferrandiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 208
Local Time: 12:34 AM
He's back now.


Ousted president Zelaya returns to Honduras | International | Reuters

TEGUCIGALPA (Reuters) - Ousted President Manuel Zelaya sneaked back into Honduras on Monday almost three months after he was toppled in a coup, and took refuge in the Brazilian embassy to avoid arrest by the de facto government.

Zelaya's ouster on June 28 in a dispute over presidential term limits plunged Honduras into its worst political conflict in decades, and was condemned by U.S. President Barack Obama, the European Union and Latin American governments.

Zelaya had been in exile mostly in Nicaragua while a de facto government that backed the coup against him became more entrenched in office, defying international calls to allow the leftist president to return.

But his sudden appearance in Honduras on Monday increased pressure on the country's ruler Roberto Micheletti to cede power and increased the chance of violent protests or a standoff at the embassy.

"I am the legitimate president chosen by the people and that is why I came here," Zelaya told Reuters by telephone from inside the Brazilian embassy.
__________________
jvferrandiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 06:13 PM   #58
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 06:34 PM
The government has installed a curfew a little less than 50 hours. It's crazy. They've painted themselves into a corner and now they don't know what to do.
__________________

__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please Bathe Yourself in My Douche-Tastic Poetry LarryMullen's POPAngel Free Your Mind Archive 244 02-24-2003 12:28 AM
How I almost brought down the president FizzingWhizzbees Free Your Mind Archive 12 03-14-2002 09:54 AM
Looking for a Muslim point of view on this war. Mirrorball Man Free Your Mind Archive 31 10-31-2001 01:45 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com