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Old 12-02-2009, 02:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I don't think I know anyone personally who downloads movies illegally. When I've read about people online doing it, it's always big blockbuster movies they're talking about.

Which probably doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the larger context, but I felt like sharing that, and so I did.
Yeah, that's fine. I do that all the time, eh!?

I don't find that the issue with downloading blockbuster films is as much of a problem because these films have a large margin of profit. However, indie films and foreign films and documentaries make very little money -- unless they are that rare Michael Moore type doc; the best ones often get little attention and they really need the money.

I've seen some amazing films at this cinema, including my favorite documentary of all time, "The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill", which got no attention compared to the far crappier and forced "March of the Penguins" released that same year.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:27 AM   #17
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By the way, I asked the employees and they said they were only told 2 weeks ago, which is, like, the bare minimum amount of time by which you have to inform people before you fire them. And that's pretty disgusting of Cineplex.

More worryingly, the employees said that they had guaranteed jobs, but they were worried that their hours would be cut, so that's hardly a proper fix.

People should email cineplex.com and call to the highest authorities to make their voices heard.


I'm so fraking sick of corporate Canada. Cineplex has a monopoly and films are often delayed like mad from the US and now this!
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:26 AM   #18
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Yeah, that's fine. I do that all the time, eh!?

I don't find that the issue with downloading blockbuster films is as much of a problem
Not much of a moral consistentcy, eh?

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By the way, I asked the employees and they said they were only told 2 weeks ago, which is, like, the bare minimum amount of time by which you have to inform people before you fire them. And that's pretty disgusting of Cineplex.


You don't HAVE to give any warning before firing someone
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More worryingly, the employees said that they had guaranteed jobs, but they were worried that their hours would be cut, so that's hardly a proper fix.

People should email cineplex.com and call to the highest authorities to make their voices heard.
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I'm so fraking sick of corporate Canada. Cineplex has a monopoly and films are often delayed like mad from the US and now this!
I'd take a guaranteed job with less hours than nothing at all, gives you time to look for a new job while still having some income come in. I think most people would agree.

What would calling or emailing do? The theater wasn't making money, period. It's basic economics.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:34 AM   #19
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You don't HAVE to give any warning before firing someone
I think Canadian labour law actually does have a clause of a minimum period of notification.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:12 AM   #20
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I think Canadian labour law actually does have a clause of a minimum period of notification.
For firing or laying off?
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:24 AM   #21
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For firing or laying off?
Termination without cause. If adequate notice is not given, there must be financial compensation in lieu of notice.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:36 AM   #22
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Termination without cause. If adequate notice is not given, there must be financial compensation in lieu of notice.
Well this makes sense... To me this is the difference between being fired and layed off.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #23
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When you close a branch you will find it hard to set your labour free a day before or so and justify that as a firing. If Canadian labour law is not too different from German labour law, then the employees will have grounds to sue. In German law, you could only fire an employee without prior notice if he did something against the interests of the company, i.e. stealing, spying etc.
Exception, of course, if it is contract or temporary employees or low-wage workers. Who needs to take care of those?
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:51 AM   #24
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Here's an explanation of Canadian (more specifically, Ontario) labour laws, and the subtle difference between termination without cause, and lay offs.

Lay-off or Dismissal, under Ontario Law --It All Amounts to the Same Thing. by Bram Lecker Lecker & Associates
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:38 PM   #25
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Why is it a stretch?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is because you're prone to hyperbole when you're worked up about something.

But it's largely due to the fact that the legal viewing options available for indie film fans have increased and improved drastically over the last few years. I would think that the fast service and nearly encyclopedic selection of a site like Netflix makes a far larger dent in theater attendance than people who illegally download films. Not that illegal downloading doesn't make some impact, but it's hardly the big culprit.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:54 PM   #26
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The thing is that especially in the case of indie films and documentaries illegal downloading often has only little effect. The reason is, those who are really into this kind of movies are generally more loyal cinema-goers and they rarely if ever download such movies. For the people who do download them, if the option of illegal downloading weren't available for them they simply wouldn't watch it at all. So technically there is no revenue lost from most, as otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the cinema anyway. Hence, the foregone revenue is rather low.
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:21 PM   #27
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Here's an explanation of Canadian (more specifically, Ontario) labour laws, and the subtle difference between termination without cause, and lay offs.
I'm just nitpicking but this is actually the ambit of employment law, not labour law (we are one of the few places where the distinction exists).
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:51 PM   #28
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Well, the first thing that comes to mind is because you're prone to hyperbole when you're worked up about something.

But it's largely due to the fact that the legal viewing options available for indie film fans have increased and improved drastically over the last few years. I would think that the fast service and nearly encyclopedic selection of a site like Netflix makes a far larger dent in theater attendance than people who illegally download films. Not that illegal downloading doesn't make some impact, but it's hardly the big culprit.
You have to remember that these "legal viewing options" are often U.S.-only. Try and access these sites from outside the U.S. and you'll get a nice "fuck you" message, courtesy of antiquarian regional distribution attitudes. Netflix, as well--U.S. only. That's not to say that there aren't some Canadian counterparts; the "Netflix" of the north is "Zip.ca." But if you're looking for a site that matches the quality and breadth as, say, Hulu, you're fresh out of luck. The sheer lack of real competition, coupled with a mutual contempt between audiences and media conglomerates, makes tackling illegal distribution up here a far more difficult proposition.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:03 PM   #29
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I'm just nitpicking but this is actually the ambit of employment law, not labour law (we are one of the few places where the distinction exists).
Noted. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:06 PM   #30
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I think Canadian labour law actually does have a clause of a minimum period of notification.
And I'm not saying you disagree, but I have a HUGE problem with a rich corporation taking advantage of people and only sticking to the minimal law. I HATE that -- especially in this economy, when people are having such a tough time. The employees at the Carleton aren't high school kids who want video game money; they're guys in their 20s and 30s who really need those jobs. And what I've found shocking is how people will just allow societal conventions as an excuse to screw people over. That's how the conservatives are winning in Canada; lots of upper (and upper middle) class people just don't care and make excuses for themselves.
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Well, the first thing that comes to mind is because you're prone to hyperbole when you're worked up about something.

But it's largely due to the fact that the legal viewing options available for indie film fans have increased and improved drastically over the last few years. I would think that the fast service and nearly encyclopedic selection of a site like Netflix makes a far larger dent in theater attendance than people who illegally download films. Not that illegal downloading doesn't make some impact, but it's hardly the big culprit.
I really don't think legal online purchases can compete with illegal theft. Do you honestly believe U2's recent album sales would be so low without illegal downloads. I just don't buy it. Same with many bands like The Beautiful South, who had to call it quits, and The Cure; they're not making up profits through legal online venues.
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You have to remember that these "legal viewing options" are often U.S.-only. Try and access these sites from outside the U.S. and you'll get a nice "fuck you" message, courtesy of antiquarian regional distribution attitudes. Netflix, as well--U.S. only. That's not to say that there aren't some Canadian counterparts; the "Netflix" of the north is "Zip.ca." But if you're looking for a site that matches the quality and breadth as, say, Hulu, you're fresh out of luck. The sheer lack of real competition, coupled with a mutual contempt between audiences and media conglomerates, makes tackling illegal distribution up here a far more difficult proposition.
Yeah, I can't stand links to Hulu or how about when you go to a US official sites for TV stations offering extra footage and you can't watch. That's one of the best things about youtube.com.


I saw "Anti-Christ" last night and it wasn't as horrific as I thought, but I definitely had to turn away and gasped aloud a few times; I'm really glad I didn't look at one of the scenes at all as the women in the back row seemed particularly disturbed.

I'm not sure what it was trying to say, either, but it was interesting. I'd rather watch this than another Ocean's Eleven movie or anything by Abrams, but it is draining.

THE TENTATIVE GOOD NEWS is that I talked to a customer service rep and that guy assured me that the Carleton cinemas employees would be getting equal hours and pay and wouldn't have their hours cut; he seemed shocked that anyone would think such a thing would happen. I'm happy, then. He better not have lied, though.
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