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Old 04-13-2009, 11:35 AM   #31
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How is it taboo for girls? Are there many parents who actually teach their daughters that masturbation is dirty, bad, etc. when girls do it but not when boys do, or did you more mean that boys tend to joke among themselves about it much more freely than girls?
It's a little bit of both. When I was just entering adolescence, one of my friends was actually taught never to touch herself "down there", except for when using the bathroom. And yes, boys do discuss it more than girls.

I also was taught that masturbation was a disgusting act, but sometimes I wonder if I had any brothers, would I have been taught the same thing?
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:38 AM   #32
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I think in cases where fathers do buy their sons pornography (and I agree with the tourist in suspecting that's decidely not the majority of cases), the 'message' accompanying it is basically "Look, I know you're interested in girls and I think you're old enough now for this stuff, no need to go swiping copies from some friend's dad or something." But not, "Here son, now go have a great time wanking with this, masturbation's a normal and healthy activity and I encourage you to enjoy exploring it."


or maybe it's, "here son, make sure you practice getting aroused by the right gender."



kidding!



mostly!
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:51 AM   #33
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I think it goes way beyond being aware of what feels good to you-it's all part of being comfortable with your body and your self image. I don't think it's needing encouragement to do it-it's more about getting affirmation from your mother in a much larger womanly bonding sort of thing. It's difficult to put into words.
Sounds about right to me. What I remember about talks with my mother is that she was very approachable, straightforward and no nonsense about answering questions, made her wishes clear about how she thought I should handle my decisions (information and advice, not permission), respected my boundaries and privacy (i.e. didn't pry and probe too much about particulars of my behaviour or circumstances) and didn't offer any how-tos or personal stories (eww).

She wasn't my confidante, but I knew she would have been if I had needed her to be.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:06 PM   #34
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I also was taught that masturbation was a disgusting act, but sometimes I wonder if I had any brothers, would I have been taught the same thing?
The only time I can ever recall masturbation even coming up as a topic at home was one time when I was on holiday with my dad and two younger, pre-teen brothers. One brother went to fetch the other one so we could all go out and came back grinning devilishly declaring to my dad that he was "uhhh, busy".

I pretended not to notice, picked up my stuff and ran outside to the car lol.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:21 PM   #35
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It's a little bit of both. When I was just entering adolescence, one of my friends was actually taught never to touch herself "down there", except for when using the bathroom. And yes, boys do discuss it more than girls.

I also was taught that masturbation was a disgusting act, but sometimes I wonder if I had any brothers, would I have been taught the same thing?
So it's pretty much your assumption that these parents (yours and your friend's) would have said contrary things to their sons and daughthers that makes you assume it's more of a taboo for girls than boys?
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:31 PM   #36
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Well, yeah!

And I am not assuming! I've never heard of girls talking so casually about masturbation, especially in public, while guys can, even if they're being obnoxious.

Maybe it's different for you, but that is the case for me.
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:42 PM   #37
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Well, yeah!

And I am not assuming! I've never heard of girls talking so casually about masturbation, especially in public, while guys can, even if they're being obnoxious.

Maybe it's different for you, but that is the case for me.
Yeah, have to say I think there is an inherent gender bias when it comes to this topic . . . in my world it seems to be viewed with more humour when we are talking about boys, ie, normal and healthy (and amongst some dads, a bit of a source of pride . . . that whole machismo thing) whereas its not even really mentioned amongst the girls. . . I'm in my (early ) 40's and its not really discussed that much amongst my circle of friends (but it will be now ). . . I have maybe 2 or 3 girlfriends who wouldn't wig out if the topic of female masturbation where discussed . . .

to be honest, I had never even considered it as a topic of discussion with my daughter . . . too busy getting through all the other bits for the minute, but I'm glad I stumbled across this thread because its really given me pause for thought and made me realise I need to open my eyes a little bit more too . . .thanks
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:42 PM   #38
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Well, yeah!

And I am not assuming! I've never heard of girls talking so casually about masturbation, especially in public, while guys can, even if they're being obnoxious.

Maybe it's different for you, but that is the case for me.
Now I see how you meant it. I guess it's more that boys just do it, while girls are not as open about it.
Though, I still don't know whether it's true that parents would deal with that issue contrarily.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #39
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or maybe it's, "here son, make sure you practice getting aroused by the right gender."
Oh sure, that actually does happen sometimes, and I'm sure sometimes too it's simply a half-assed token substitute for the real "One Big Talk" that a father is too embarrassed or uncomfortable to have with his son. I was more making a generalization about the most likely attitude usually underlying something like that.
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I also was taught that masturbation was a disgusting act, but sometimes I wonder if I had any brothers, would I have been taught the same thing?
Well, there's no way to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure you would have, and also that said brothers would've gotten the same message...Certainly for my generation (I'm just about 11 years older than you), most boys grew up absolutely no better 'informed' or 'validated' concerning basic sex-ed stuff (safe sex, emotional aspects, anatomy specifics etc.), let alone masturbation, than most girls did-- **if we're talking what came specifically from their parents**. Rather, just like girls, they usually had to learn most of it from a mixture of friends, brothers, and embarrassing personal experiences. Which is to say, fathers overall have never been any better or worse at offering information and guidance on these things than mothers overall have. And as a parent today, I absolutely do not get the impression that that fact has changed much (though parents of both sexes have gotten better about discussing sexual matters openly--not all certainly, but enough that we can safely say times have changed, which is great).

What is different, and unfortunately this remains true to a considerable degree, is the parental 'double standard,' where girls' sexual (and really just in general dating) activities tend to be watched and intervened in far more than boys', by parents of both sexes. Which can be destructive in all kinds of ways. But this shouldn't be confused with how 'well-informed' a child was by their parents, nor how 'positive' and 'healthy' a view of sexuality their parents gave them--a boy whose dating activities are often ignored while his sister's are watched like a hawk (or whose friends more readily joke about masturbation than hers do, etc.) is not at all necessarily a boy who has any more of a clue what the hell he's doing or getting himself into than his sister does.

Certain sects or denominations of some religions (conservative Catholics or ultra-Orthodox Jews, for example) really do teach that masturbation, for both sexes, is 'sinful' and 'disgusting'--that it encourages lust, or (for boys) 'wastes' semen, and so on. If that's your parents' background, and assuming they're not so petrified as to never mention sex at all, then yes, both sons and daughters are likely to have that message relayed to them. I do think it's true that boys are far more likely to hear that message 'counteracted' by their peers later, which is why I agree it's particularly good to convey to daughters that it's normal and natural to enjoy this. But it's not at all uncommon for men from those kinds of backgrounds to be carrying around some pretty immense hangups and guilt/shame complexes because they had the horror of 'wasting seed' and 'having lustful thoughts of women other than your wife' pounded into their heads in childhood, then of course they go and do it anyway--who doesn't?--and wind up unable to emotionally reconcile the two.

I don't know that it's necessary to aim for girls and women becoming 'more like men' in terms of openly alluding to the topic among peers in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink sort of way (which isn't to say it'd be bad if it happened). Part of the reason why the male equivalent gets more attention is simply because it's harder to keep it entirely private--girls definitely have their own litany of adolescent mishaps where certain things become publically obvious in an embarrassing way, but inconveniently timed erections and trips to the bathroom for clearly non-hygiene-related 'relief' are not among them. You kinda have to have a sense of humor about things like that, because it'd be way too humiliating if you couldn't. It's a good bit easier for girls to keep masturbation fully discreet.





I'm also having a hard time buying this idea of presenting masturbation as an 'alternative' to sexual activity as usually defined; that just doesn't seem credible to me. Sure there's a connection between the two, but generally speaking people don't decide to become intimately involved with someone merely because they'd like to have an orgasm. Anyone can achieve that much on their own anytime, and I think most teens are plenty smart enough to figure that out.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:32 PM   #40
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The only time I can ever recall masturbation even coming up as a topic at home was one time when I was on holiday with my dad and two younger, pre-teen brothers. One brother went to fetch the other one so we could all go out and came back grinning devilishly declaring to my dad that he was "uhhh, busy".

I pretended not to notice, picked up my stuff and ran outside to the car lol.
that's hilarious and embarrassing all in one.
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:56 PM   #41
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I don't know that it's necessary to aim for girls and women becoming 'more like men' in terms of openly alluding to the topic among peers in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink sort of way (which isn't to say it'd be bad if it happened).
There will always be double standards but the realm of female pleasure has already become much more mainstream in the last number of years. Maybe that's why it's hitting the sex ed radar.

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I'm also having a hard time buying this idea of presenting masturbation as an 'alternative' to sexual activity as usually defined; that just doesn't seem credible to me.
Same here. Despite raging hormones, the agony of puberty for girls is about being liked by the boys. So early sexual curiosity, exploration and pleasure isn't primarily about orgasms at all.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:27 PM   #42
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I was raised by a single father and I was never given a sex talk, etc growing up, I learned from tv and school, and my neighbor from Germany who is very open minded about sex etc. But when that time of the month came to me for the first time when I was about 10-11 years, I remember being scared to death thinking "I'm gonna die" I was scared to death about, thank God for a friend of mine at the time, who was a little older, the neighbor from Germany, and my Dad's sisters telling me about that. But I never learned about sex, and all that jazz, I learned most of it on my own, and to be honest still learning.

Now with talking about masturbation to your daughter, I think it will have to be a personal thing, I myself would be freaked out talking about that stuff with my mother or Dad, etc. I remember and still have some conversations, talking to my neighbor from Germany on this stuff, I would always either change the subject, blush or go quiet, I think it also has got to do with how you approach it as well. But each family and person is different on how much to share etc, so as I always say each it's own. Approach how you want to, and feel comfortable with.

Now my neighbor from Germany she is another story when it comes to this stuff, I remember when I was about 14 years old she went up to my Dad and said "the time has come, you should put your daughter on birth control" My Dad went nuts about it, he was like heck no my Daughter doesn't need that and won't be having sex. I remember how red his face was to, poor guy lol, as well as her coming over for the longest time asking " have you had the talk", oh corase he didn't, again poor guy, maybe it was because he was a single Dad raising a daughter or maybe the subject in general was uncomfortable for him :shrug

This stuff never occurred to me though growing up, maybe I was scared or something, embarrassed etc, who knows.

Why I said I'm still learning
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:18 AM   #43
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Dr. Berman is on again today, with two 14 year olds who say they are ready to have sex. That should be interesting.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:07 AM   #44
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Times Online July 12

A National Health Service leaflet is advising school pupils that they have a “right” to an enjoyable sex life and that regular intercourse can be good for their cardiovascular health.

The advice appears in guidance circulated to parents, teachers and youth workers, and is intended to update sex education by telling pupils about the benefits of sexual pleasure. For too long, say its authors, experts have concentrated on the need for “safe sex” and loving relationships while ignoring the main reason that many people have sex, that is, for enjoyment.

The document, called Pleasure, has been drawn up by NHS Sheffield, although it is also being circulated outside the city.

Alongside the slogan “an orgasm a day keeps the doctor away”, it says: “Health promotion experts advocate five portions of fruit and veg a day and 30 minutes’ physical activity three times a week. What about sex or masturbation twice a week?”

Steve Slack, director of the Centre for HIV and Sexual Health at NHS Sheffield, who is one of the authors, argues that, far from promoting teenage sex, it could encourage young people to delay losing their virginity until they are sure they will enjoy the experience.

Slack believes that as long as teenagers are fully informed about sex and are making their decisions free of peer pressure and as part of a caring relationship, they have as much right as an adult to a good sex life.

Anthony Seldon, master of Wellington College, Berkshire, who introduced classes in emotional wellbeing, said the approach was “deplorable”.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:16 AM   #45
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children should be taught that masturbation is a SIN and GOD is WATCHING and he will send them to HELL or all ETERNITY if they do it!!!!!


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