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Old 06-21-2011, 07:14 PM   #16
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Higher standards.
Aaahh. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
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We say we support Israel because they are a democratic blah blah island amongst a blah blah blah sea. And that goes both ways. We claim they are something 'more' so we expect more of them?
I'm not sure a lot of the Arab world sees our infidel standards as "higher."
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:27 PM   #17
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Aaahh. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
This.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:22 PM   #18
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Many Muslim countries have been stuck in an infancy stage for centuries. You don't treat a child and a young adult the same.
You mean like savages? There's quite a bit of passive racism in that sentence. Just sayin'
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:21 AM   #19
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You mean like savages? There's quite a bit of passive racism in that sentence. Just sayin'
I completely agree. I didn't say I support this line of thought, but to deny it exists and to deny that it's part of the reason is turning a blind eye.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:36 PM   #20
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Are we discussing the topic yet?
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:53 PM   #21
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Care to take the lead?
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:09 PM   #22
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What of the European left's comparative silence on human rights abuses in Muslim countries in the Middle East as compared to the fulsome denunciations levelled at Israel?
I read this a few times and I still think there is a distinction nobody else seems to have picked up on. While I don't particularly know or care what the European Left have to say:

1. Human rights abuses in 'Muslim countries in the Middle East' are, as far as I can tell, a matter inflicted by the regimes of those countries, on the citizens of those countries.

2. The sort of aggression that Israel is criticised for mainly seems to concern its ever-fluid borders with the quasi-country neighbouring it (Palestine) and at times the odd bona fide neighbouring country (Lebanon). Naturally, the government of Israel is not under attack for torturing or bombing the crap out of its own Jewish citizens, since to the best of my knowledge it doesn't do things like that.

If the European Left is comparatively silent about the former, I don't know why off the top of my head. There seemed to be a hell of a lot of noise about Libya, only now that they've gone and intervened suddenly everyone is against that. Less noise about Syria, to be sure.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:15 AM   #23
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South Park and Borat made hating jews a part of comedy and an attempt to make it funny.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:12 PM   #24
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Aaahh. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
When you're talking about cultural or development differences at a 'people' level - as BVS mentioned - then yes, it is passive racism (as Jive Turkey said) or soft bigotry (as you said) to suggest as much. But I was talking about perceived institutional/government human rights abuses. Israel strongly claims to be a part of a set of nations that hold themselves to a higher set of standards when it comes to human rights. They also claim that this is specifically one of the main reasons why we should support them first and foremost in the region, over other Middle Eastern nations who don't live up to those ideals and make no claim to.

And really, 'European Left'? I have no idea what they have or haven't done, but the US (left AND right) is also knee deep in hypocrisy and bullshit when it comes to this sort of thing. No doubt the European Right is too. Everyone is, really. There's plenty to go around, no need to single individual groups out. If we cared that much we'd get on Israel's back when they fuck up AND treat Saudi Arabia like the bunch of degenerate, extremist arseholes that they are. But we pump billions into both, and get pissed and cry antisemitism when someone mentions one and are generally too scared to mention the other.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:06 PM   #25
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South Park and Borat made hating jews a part of comedy and an attempt to make it funny.
I feel sorry for people like you. Unless of course you're being sarcastic... Which I really hope you are
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:03 AM   #26
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I feel sorry for people like you. Unless of course you're being sarcastic... Which I really hope you are
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:19 AM   #27
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I preferred your pre-edit post

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I feel sorry for fuck faces like you. I was being sarcastic but if you say something like that to me again I'll shove my fist down your fucking throat.

There is some sarcasm for you
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:53 PM   #28
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If the European Left is comparatively silent about the former, I don't know why off the top of my head. There seemed to be a hell of a lot of noise about Libya, only now that they've gone and intervened suddenly everyone is against that. Less noise about Syria, to be sure.
Well, consider the following, and I'll do my best to explain the background and distinguish between facts and my own personal take.

The current Irish justice minister, Alan Shatter, happens to be Jewish, and also happens to be a fervent and outspoken supporter (at least by Irish standards, by US standards he would probably be considered mainstream pro-Israel) of Israel. (It has been claimed he would have gotten the slightly more senior foreign minister post if he was not an Israel supporter, but his opinions were deemed not representative of the electorate, which may well be the case).

Another politician, Chris Andrews, son of the former Irish minister of state for foreign affairs, unsuccessful candidate for election to parliament during last year's general election, member of a very prominent and well-connected Irish political family, recently took to Twitter to announce his belief that Alan Shatter is no more or less than an Israeli agent in Ireland.

This article from the (populist, conservative, pro-Israel) newspaper the Irish Independent alleges that Andrews, in making said Twitter comments, was making or at least was influenced by age-old anti-semitic insults and slurs:

Quote:
Fianna Fail grandee and former TD, Chris Andrews, was this week travelling with the flotilla intended for Palestine (his ship was damaged in a Greek port on Wednesday and couldn't continue). Which is his democratic right.

What's less admirable is his comment on Twitter, describing Alan Shatter as "Israel's puppet in Ireland". This was a bad-minded and scurrilous thing to say, so astonishingly contemptible that I wondered if he fully meant it -- or had the fatal immediacy of the internet claimed another victim before he'd time to put his brain in gear.

Presumably he did; he then argued with other Tweeters about Shatter, Israel, that whole mess in the Levant.

So. Chris Andrews believes an Irish citizen and Government minister is an agent of a foreign state. Not merely an agent: a "puppet", which has long been a notorious slur against Jews.
Of all the world conflicts, why are we so hostile to Israel? - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

And now I will go into personal opinion mode.

I submit that the Irish Independent are largely correct on this - and, that comments made by Sinn Fein member of parliament Aengus O'Snodaigh about Alan Shatter a few years ago are in a similar vein:

Israel attacks Gaza

In my opinion, implying that someone is basically a traitor purely by virtue of the fact that the person is Jewish and/or supports Israel is a borderline blood libel. (It would be no more fair than to allege that an Irish Catholic who supports the Palestinians is doing so only because they report to the Vatican and hate Jew because of their religion, for example).

Sadly, to this day in some European countries, particularly the ones that chickened out of WWII, one can still be nasty about the Jews, and get away with it.
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