Happy 50th Anniversary, Cuba

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I'm pretty sure that this post is mostly about America, not about Cuba. After all, considering that the Cuban embargo is only U.S.-based, the rest of the world could easily trade or, barring that, send lots of cash to them. But, interestingly, they choose to do neither.

At 50, Cuba's revolution showing its age

From Morgan Neill
CNN Havana Bureau Chief

HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Thursday marks the 50th anniversary of the Cuban revolution, when Fidel Castro and a group of guerrillas toppled a longstanding U.S.-backed dictator.

But January 1, 1959, was a long time ago. In Cuba today, when people refer to "the revolution," they often mean the country's aging, established government.

After so many years, people's hopes for the revolution's future are hardly revolutionary.

"I hope that it continues to move forward, because this country needs development. We're really behind," said a student who did not give his name.

"More opportunities in the economy and in transportation," another man said.

But there was a time when the goals were much loftier.

In the first days of 1959, when Castro and his bearded rebels rolled into Havana on tanks and other captured vehicles, they talked of sweeping changes -- an end to corruption, justice for the poor and independence from foreign domination.

A half-century later, their achievements are a mixed bag.

The government often points to free health care as a measure of its success.

"Cuba is a global medical power," said Joaquín García Salabarría, the vice minister of public health. "Nobody can doubt that."

Also touted by the government: education. Literacy rates are among the world's highest, and access to higher education is widespread.

But students question why they can't travel freely, and why their access to the Internet is so limited.

Most Cubans can barely make ends meet, and while the government blames a U.S. trade embargo imposed in 1962, critics say it's just bad management. They say the gains of the revolution have come at too heavy a cost.


Dissident groups say Cuba holds more than 200 political prisoners, an accusation the government denies.

Television, radio and newspapers are all controlled by the state.

Cuba marks the 50th anniversary of the revolution with a new president, Raul Castro, who officially took the reins in February because of the prolonged illness of his brother, Fidel Castro.

But this year, Raul Castro faced three devastating hurricanes, rising prices for food imports and plummeting prices for nickel, one of Cuba's most important exports.

In a speech this week, the president warned Cubans -- who on average earn the equivalent of less than $20 a month -- to prepare for belt-tightening.

"The accounts don't square up," Raul Castro told the National Assembly. "You have to act with realism and adjust the dreams to the true possibilities."

That pragmatic approach is a far cry from the idealism in the early days of the revolution led by his brother.

"I think that celebrations of the 50th anniversary are also marked by a real sense that sustaining this experiment and institutionalizing it is going to require major, major lifting in a very short term by the people running the country today," said Julia Sweig of the Council on Foreign Relations.

That, in turn, could mean making changes to deal with a new environment. But, ironically, change is about the last thing people here expect from the revolution.

Yes, you've got to love any government that cannot accept opposition nor can only operate by imprisoning its population inside its borders by restricting travel. And the U.S. has no hand at all in the communist Cuban government's decision to do just that for the last 50 years.
 
Did I ever claim that Cuba was paradise?

It sure is a hell of a lot better than it was between 1903 (the Platte Amendment) and 1959 (the end of the Batista regime), when it was an American puppet state/vacation spot for the Mafia. Even the most cursory knowledge of Cuban history should make that very obvious.
 
After 50 years why does the average Cuban still make $5.00 a week?

You call that progress?

<>
 
:lol: How hilarious.

Anyone who thinks a Castro regime is better than anything needs to have their head checked. I just recently learned from my aunt that her uncle was shot dead in the streets by government men in the 1960's because he was vocal against the revolution.
That's just a dust speck in the universe of wrong that exists and has existed in Cuba's 50 years of torture.

Everyone celebrate indeed.
 
After 50 years why does the average Cuban still make $5.00 a week?

After 50 years why does Cuba have a better health care and public education system than the United States?

The Castro regime has an inexcusable human rights record (particularly in the early stages of their rule), and for that they must be held accountable. I have Cuban friends (a couple who are here for school - they are freely permitted to leave the country for Canada and other nations, but not for the United States - they are hardly "imprisoned in their own country" by any means) they say that life is much, MUCH better now than it ever was under the Platt Amendment. Those that don't feel that way have either been out of the country for decades or had ancestors who profited highly from the general anarchy of the first sixty years of the twentieth century.
 
After 50 years why does the average Cuban still make $5.00 a week?

You call that progress?

<>

They have a better healthcare and education system than the US. Now who is backwards ?
 
CUBA!

A land of wonders. They've given us so many treasures. Cigars, a missile crisis, and this guy -

alexei-ramirez-080628.jpg


!Viva la revolucion! Donde esta la biblioteca?
 
:lol: How hilarious.

Anyone who thinks a Castro regime is better than anything needs to have their head checked. I just recently learned from my aunt that her uncle was shot dead in the streets by government men in the 1960's because he was vocal against the revolution.
That's just a dust speck in the universe of wrong that exists and has existed in Cuba's 50 years of torture.

Everyone celebrate indeed.

After 50 years why does Cuba have a better health care and public education system than the United States?

The Castro regime has an inexcusable human rights record (particularly in the early stages of their rule), and for that they must be held accountable. I have Cuban friends (a couple who are here for school - they are freely permitted to leave the country for Canada and other nations, but not for the United States - they are hardly "imprisoned in their own country" by any means) they say that life is much, MUCH better now than it ever was under the Platt Amendment. Those that don't feel that way have either been out of the country for decades or had ancestors who profited highly from the general anarchy of the first sixty years of the twentieth century.

Just interesting to see these quotes back-to-back.
 
Are they still using Castro's body like it's Weekend at Bernie's?

With Cuba, like with other places, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Castro is a fucking criminal, his regime is corrupt, etc. But the exiles in Miami don't seem able to accept the fact that not everyone feels the same way as they do, and they are still living like it's 50 years ago, without a very good idea of things on the ground right now.

It's a beautiful country. I loved it there, especially driving through the countryside. Lovely people.
 
the truth is somewhere in the middle. Castro is a fucking criminal, his regime is corrupt, etc. But the exiles in Miami don't seem able to accept the fact that not everyone feels the same way as they do, and they are still living like it's 50 years ago, without a very good idea of things on the ground right now.

Well said :up:
 
With Cuba, like with other places, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Castro is a fucking criminal, his regime is corrupt, etc. But the exiles in Miami don't seem able to accept the fact that not everyone feels the same way as they do, and they are still living like it's 50 years ago, without a very good idea of things on the ground right now.

That's probably true, but, as I see it, we cannot surmise what the people of Cuba want, unless both opposition parties are permitted and free and fair elections are exercised. Until then, the Cuban exiles' opinions are as good a guess as anyone else's.
 
After 50 years why does Cuba have a better health care and public education system than the United States?

The Castro regime has an inexcusable human rights record .

Yep..and the health care and education system is soo good that they still die trying to swim to the USA.:up:

<>
 
That's probably true, but, as I see it, we cannot surmise what the people of Cuba want, unless both opposition parties are permitted and free and fair elections are exercised. Until then, the Cuban exiles' opinions are as good a guess as anyone else's.

I was born abroad.

I have been careful to not get involved in political decisions of my country of birth. I do not live there and I have no intention of returning. Therefore I think it is somewhat disingenuous to try to dictate policy from 5000 miles away based on some vision of the place that exists in my head from 20 years ago.

At my former job, where 80% of my coworkers were Israeli Jews, they said that they'd never met such militant people as the Jewish diaspora in North America and that they resented them IMMENSELY for their militancy and their lobbying all the while their children slept safely in expensive houses in New York, Montreal, etc.

I am generally weary of exiles. I know first hand that the image of a country in your head is one from very long ago, and that place doesn't exist anymore. And the children who were born abroad have never been there and have heard one version their entire lives. That too, may have nothing to do with current realities.

Cuban exiles, like exiles of other places can and should have a place in the reconstruction. But I believe that their involvement and their political influence has not been positive for a long time, and I see very little in the way of suggesting that things on that front are going to change.

What happened 50 years ago happened and now it is over. So long as people want to keep reliving that, nothing will change.
 
All I know about Cuba is what I hear from my uncle (a musician) and cousin (an oncolologist) who still live there. From what they told me yesterday they weren't celebrating much. My cousin's daughter just hopes one day she can go to NY to watch a concert at Lincoln Center or Carnegie Hall. El Festival de Jóvenes Músicos cierra sus puertas | Atenas (Rebeca Avalos Alvarez) If she keeps it up she probably will get to travel and play the violin abroad, probably not with her family though if things stay the way they are.

My cousin has never been permitted to leave the country. I think some of the people that applaud Cuba's present government take the freedoms they have for granted.
 
Yep..and the health care and education system is soo good that they still die trying to swim to the USA.:up:

<>

You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door. :wave:
 
You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door. :wave:

:whistle:

Thursday, 22 November, 2001, 01:48 GMT
Cuban immigrants feared drowned



Anxious relatives are waiting for news

Up to 30 Cubans, including several children, are feared drowned after the boat which was carrying them illegally to the United States was found capsized off the Florida Keys.
United States coastguard helicopters and rescue crafts are continuing to scour the area, but they say hope is fading of finding anyone alive.



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How many people have to die before people realise that paying a smuggler is paying to put people in grave danger?
Gene Smith, US Coastguard

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Each of the immigrants had reportedly paid $10,000 for their place on the boat, which set off from Cuba on Saturday evening and was expected to arrive in the Florida keys on Sunday.
When the boat failed to arrive as planned anxious relatives in Miami waited a further 24-hours before contacting the American authorities for fear of prosecution.

As soon as they did, a full scale rescue operation was launched involving the US Coastguard and US Air Force. Late on Tuesday night they found a vessel matching the boat's description floating upside down.

No sign of passengers

A single life-jacket was floating nearby, but there was no sign of those on board.

"Pending further developments, we have exhausted all hope of finding anybody," coastguard spokesman Gene Smith said.




The sinking is the single worst smuggling tragedy ever from Cuba - according to the Miami-based relatives of the missing there were 30 people on board, including a dozen children.


Federal prosecutors in south Florida are investigating the incident, hoping to find the organisers of the voyage, who could face charges of smuggling illegal migrants.

Perilous journey

Mr Smith said the boat probably hit high seas.

"A 30-foot (9m) boat in 14-foot (4.5m) seas, that's just crazy, it's really dangerous, and this is a 30-foot boat with 30 people on board," Mr Smith said.

"How many people have to die before people realise that paying a smuggler is paying to put people in grave danger?" he asked.




The charge for the trip, up to $10,000 a head, is far beyond the means of most Cubans on the island, and so it is usually paid by relatives in the US.

Carlos Montane, whose ex-wife and eight-year-old daughter were on board the boat, said he paid the fee for their passage.

"I can't live all my life with this guilt," he told the Miami Herald.

The US Coastguard say their search for the missing will continue and again warned Cubans of the dangers of trying to enter the country in this way.
 
You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door. :wave:

I've been to Cuba, loved the country and people. Yet if you cannot see that 50 years on there are still people that risk their lives in the hope of a better life, I don't know what to tell you. I suppose you're going to blame United States propaganda on the deaths of those that try to escape by raft. Yet, for some, but not all, they're escaping for legitimate reasons, and presumably one would be because they're unhappy with life in Cuba.

I also agree with Martina, in that invariably, the truth is always somewhere in the centre. You're basing your opinion—and it is an opinion, not fact—on history books and anecdotal evidence, yet unless you were there in both periods, you cannot say for certain that Cuba is better off now than they were prior to 1959.
 
You're basing your opinion—and it is an opinion, not fact—on history books and anecdotal evidence, yet unless you were there in both periods, you cannot say for certain that Cuba is better off now than they were prior to 1959.

I took a "History of Cuba 1400-2000" class here at university as an elective. By no means does that make me an expert, but I'm just saying that I'm not entirely ignorant in this matter (I'm not solely a believer in propaganda, one way or another). This is where I met my Cuban friends who were also taking the class and who expressed the opinions I stated earlier in this thread. I trust their judgement much more than anyone else's, just as I would trust a Norwegian's opinion on the state of Norway more than a Canadian who proclaims themselves an expert on Norwegian history.

:shrug:

ETA: Diamond, you haven't the slightest clue what I'm talking about, either.
 
So just to be clear, your expertise on Cuba comes from an elective you took in college and a some Cubans you met in that class who are having their education in Canada financed by the Cuban government?
 
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