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Old 01-03-2009, 03:12 PM   #16
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After 50 years why does Cuba have a better health care and public education system than the United States?

The Castro regime has an inexcusable human rights record .
Yep..and the health care and education system is soo good that they still die trying to swim to the USA.

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Old 01-03-2009, 04:11 PM   #17
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That's probably true, but, as I see it, we cannot surmise what the people of Cuba want, unless both opposition parties are permitted and free and fair elections are exercised. Until then, the Cuban exiles' opinions are as good a guess as anyone else's.
I was born abroad.

I have been careful to not get involved in political decisions of my country of birth. I do not live there and I have no intention of returning. Therefore I think it is somewhat disingenuous to try to dictate policy from 5000 miles away based on some vision of the place that exists in my head from 20 years ago.

At my former job, where 80% of my coworkers were Israeli Jews, they said that they'd never met such militant people as the Jewish diaspora in North America and that they resented them IMMENSELY for their militancy and their lobbying all the while their children slept safely in expensive houses in New York, Montreal, etc.

I am generally weary of exiles. I know first hand that the image of a country in your head is one from very long ago, and that place doesn't exist anymore. And the children who were born abroad have never been there and have heard one version their entire lives. That too, may have nothing to do with current realities.

Cuban exiles, like exiles of other places can and should have a place in the reconstruction. But I believe that their involvement and their political influence has not been positive for a long time, and I see very little in the way of suggesting that things on that front are going to change.

What happened 50 years ago happened and now it is over. So long as people want to keep reliving that, nothing will change.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:11 PM   #18
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All I know about Cuba is what I hear from my uncle (a musician) and cousin (an oncolologist) who still live there. From what they told me yesterday they weren't celebrating much. My cousin's daughter just hopes one day she can go to NY to watch a concert at Lincoln Center or Carnegie Hall. El Festival de Jóvenes Músicos cierra sus puertas | Atenas (Rebeca Avalos Alvarez) If she keeps it up she probably will get to travel and play the violin abroad, probably not with her family though if things stay the way they are.

My cousin has never been permitted to leave the country. I think some of the people that applaud Cuba's present government take the freedoms they have for granted.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:26 PM   #19
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I think some of the people that applaud Cuba's present government take the freedoms they have for granted.
I've never met such a person (I mean one who applauds the current government).

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Old 01-03-2009, 05:32 PM   #20
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I've never met such a person (I mean one who applauds the current government).

I'm happy for you.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:55 PM   #21
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Who needs America if they Have Venezuela



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Old 01-03-2009, 07:43 PM   #22
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Yep..and the health care and education system is soo good that they still die trying to swim to the USA.

<>
You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:09 PM   #23
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You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door.


Quote:
Thursday, 22 November, 2001, 01:48 GMT
Cuban immigrants feared drowned



Anxious relatives are waiting for news

Up to 30 Cubans, including several children, are feared drowned after the boat which was carrying them illegally to the United States was found capsized off the Florida Keys.
United States coastguard helicopters and rescue crafts are continuing to scour the area, but they say hope is fading of finding anyone alive.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people have to die before people realise that paying a smuggler is paying to put people in grave danger?
Gene Smith, US Coastguard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Each of the immigrants had reportedly paid $10,000 for their place on the boat, which set off from Cuba on Saturday evening and was expected to arrive in the Florida keys on Sunday.
When the boat failed to arrive as planned anxious relatives in Miami waited a further 24-hours before contacting the American authorities for fear of prosecution.

As soon as they did, a full scale rescue operation was launched involving the US Coastguard and US Air Force. Late on Tuesday night they found a vessel matching the boat's description floating upside down.

No sign of passengers

A single life-jacket was floating nearby, but there was no sign of those on board.

"Pending further developments, we have exhausted all hope of finding anybody," coastguard spokesman Gene Smith said.




The sinking is the single worst smuggling tragedy ever from Cuba - according to the Miami-based relatives of the missing there were 30 people on board, including a dozen children.


Federal prosecutors in south Florida are investigating the incident, hoping to find the organisers of the voyage, who could face charges of smuggling illegal migrants.

Perilous journey

Mr Smith said the boat probably hit high seas.

"A 30-foot (9m) boat in 14-foot (4.5m) seas, that's just crazy, it's really dangerous, and this is a 30-foot boat with 30 people on board," Mr Smith said.

"How many people have to die before people realise that paying a smuggler is paying to put people in grave danger?" he asked.




The charge for the trip, up to $10,000 a head, is far beyond the means of most Cubans on the island, and so it is usually paid by relatives in the US.

Carlos Montane, whose ex-wife and eight-year-old daughter were on board the boat, said he paid the fee for their passage.

"I can't live all my life with this guilt," he told the Miami Herald.

The US Coastguard say their search for the missing will continue and again warned Cubans of the dangers of trying to enter the country in this way.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:32 PM   #24
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You're welcome to return to this thread once you gain the slightest clue regarding what you're talking about. Until then, there's the door.
I've been to Cuba, loved the country and people. Yet if you cannot see that 50 years on there are still people that risk their lives in the hope of a better life, I don't know what to tell you. I suppose you're going to blame United States propaganda on the deaths of those that try to escape by raft. Yet, for some, but not all, they're escaping for legitimate reasons, and presumably one would be because they're unhappy with life in Cuba.

I also agree with Martina, in that invariably, the truth is always somewhere in the centre. You're basing your opinion—and it is an opinion, not fact—on history books and anecdotal evidence, yet unless you were there in both periods, you cannot say for certain that Cuba is better off now than they were prior to 1959.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #25
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You're basing your opinion—and it is an opinion, not fact—on history books and anecdotal evidence, yet unless you were there in both periods, you cannot say for certain that Cuba is better off now than they were prior to 1959.
I took a "History of Cuba 1400-2000" class here at university as an elective. By no means does that make me an expert, but I'm just saying that I'm not entirely ignorant in this matter (I'm not solely a believer in propaganda, one way or another). This is where I met my Cuban friends who were also taking the class and who expressed the opinions I stated earlier in this thread. I trust their judgement much more than anyone else's, just as I would trust a Norwegian's opinion on the state of Norway more than a Canadian who proclaims themselves an expert on Norwegian history.



ETA: Diamond, you haven't the slightest clue what I'm talking about, either.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:50 PM   #26
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So just to be clear, your expertise on Cuba comes from an elective you took in college and a some Cubans you met in that class who are having their education in Canada financed by the Cuban government?
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:58 PM   #27
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So just to be clear, your expertise on Cuba comes from an elective you took in college and a some Cubans you met in that class who are having their education in Canada financed by the Cuban government?
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By no means does that make me an expert,
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:14 AM   #28
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perhaps of interest

Anastasia Haydulina, "Interview with Mariela Castro on the Future of Sex and Socialism in Cuba"
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:19 AM   #29
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It's clear you're not an expert.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:43 AM   #30
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It's clear you're not an expert.


You've made a very valuable contribution to this thread. Is that all you came in here for?
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