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Old 09-18-2012, 11:57 PM   #376
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No, most of us do still pay something, just not as much as others for reasons beyond our control. But our money does still factor in somehow, at the very least up to the state level. And if we are paying anything into the government at a local, state, or federal level, it's not exactly unreasonable to expect something in return for that, right?

Also, wasn't one of the Tea Party's big complaints having to do with paying too much in taxes (supposedly)? Funny how the Republican Party was totally cool with them, but the rest of us are just "freeloaders".
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:28 AM   #377
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It's the vilest sort of resentment politics. I'm not American but if various kinds of state and sales taxes were taken into account, is there a single soul in the country who pays literally no tax?
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:06 AM   #378
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Poor Mitt. He can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:14 AM   #379
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Well, technically, the people he was talking about already don't "pay in".
False. Caleb, do you honestly believe the entire 47% including the retirees spent all their lives "not paying in"?
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:40 AM   #380
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Even this 12 year old can see Romney as he is:

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Dear Governor Romney,
I’d like to say congratulations on winning the republican nomination. But, I wish you stayed in Massachusetts. You’re plan for America isn’t what we need, and would hurt us more than it would help.
First, repealing Obama care and other health plans he’s put in place have helped families across America, including mine. I live in a middle class family, and two years ago my little sister; Kennedy was denied insurance because of her pre-existing condition. This was a huge emotional stress and financial burden on my entire family. Under Obama Care, insurance companies can no longer deny Kennedy and kids like her, the coverage they need and deserve. Because of Obama care my little sister was able to have the several surgeries she needed that helped save her life. Once the President was elected he put Obama Care into action, just like he promised and made it so that you could get insurance with pre-existing conditions. This has made a direct impact on my family. My family is with out a doubt better off now, than we were four years ago!
It is to my understanding that you stated that you were going to repeal Obama Care, including the part I have mentioned, which will take away the insurance we have and need for my sister Kennedy. Why do you think she doesn’t deserve health care? Also, when you were interviewed on “Meet the Press”, you stated that you would NOT repeal this part of Obama Care, but then your campaign backpedalled and on the “Tonight show with Jay Leno”, you said that you WOULD repeal this.
Also, you’re domestic plans (birth control, gay rights etc.) are horrible! Women should get to manage their own health, and if you wonder why you’re not appealing to many women voters, rethink your birth control and women’s’ rights plans. And people should be able to marry whom they want. We built this country so people could have freedom, and not have religious beliefs control them to that length. This country was in no way built on any religion, so we should not create laws that repress the American people in a religious way and hurt our most vulnerable.
Sincerely,
Jackson Ripley, age 12
Jackson Ripley, 12-Year-Old Coloradan Boy, Writes Letter To Romney Saying His 'Plan For America Isn't What We Need' (PHOTOS)

I love it when young kids know what is going on in the world and care about it.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:53 AM   #381
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False. Caleb, do you honestly believe the entire 47% including the retirees spent all their lives "not paying in"?
All, certainly not. Some, probably.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #382
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Well, technically, the people he was talking about already don't "pay in".
That's not correct. My parents live on Social Security and VA benefits , which they certainly paid into. Even if it wasn't monetarily. Vets certainly earn it.

What about veterans? And people aren't entitled to food and shelter? That's being so religious and compassionate. Whatever happened to compassionate conservatism?
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:22 AM   #383
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All, certainly not. Some, probably.
Then why even say they "don't pay in"?

Don't try and make up excuses for the excusable. Listen we all know politicians say things off the cuff that shouldn't have been said, but I think we do ourselves a disservice when we try and excuse what they say rather than admit it wasn't a smart or informed thing to say.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:24 AM   #384
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I've been in (socialist) Europe for the last couple of weeks and don't get back for a few more days but I have to say that it's a real delight to see that Mitt has lost the election while I was away.

I also find the shock/outrage at what he said to be a bit puzzling given that's exactly what the Republican views have been for years now. Mitt just said out loud what the rest of them are thinking.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:31 AM   #385
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And here all along the Republicans saw taxes as evil. The less the better right? But apparently taxes are bad for the rich but necessary for the poor? The rich person that finds a way to avoid paying taxes is a hero, the poor person who doesn't make enough to be required to pay income taxes is a "taker."

This statement of Mitt's is wrong on so many levels. If you don't make enough money to pay taxes how does that make you an entitled moocher?

NPR had a pretty good piece this morning on why so many WORKERS do not pay taxes. Some great clips from Hero of the Right Ronald Reagan among others:

Why Some Are Exempt From Federal Income Taxes : NPR
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:36 AM   #386
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I also find the shock/outrage at what he said to be a bit puzzling given that's exactly what the Republican views have been for years now. Mitt just said out loud what the rest of them are thinking.
I agree. He just said the dirty-little-not-so-secret out loud. During a meeting of rich, possibly like minded people.

The guy is known to have sex parties there. Pretty soon the 47 percent will feel entitled to govt subsidized sex parties.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:37 AM   #387
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If you don't make enough money to pay taxes, you should work harder. You're obviously not as industrious or as productive as Mitt.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #388
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Every Monday I have a current events round table discussion with my 7th and 8th grade social studies students. The election is always the first thing we discuss. I thought I'd share some of their impressions, which I found interesting. There were gaps in their knowledge and understanding to be sure (the kids had the prior week to research, watch the news and otherwise inform themselves before the discussion). The class is 100% in the tank for Obama, which is not a complete surprise as our school is predominantly African American--however the students recognized the pitfalls of voting just based on race and the reasons they gave for opposing Romney were not race based. Here's some highlights from our discussion:

Sources of information the kids used to learn about the candidates: campaign information available on the web, Facebook pages/postings, research they did on the candidates' past, their parents, CNN, articles in the paper, news, and TV commercials.

They like Obama because he seems more accessible, seems kind and confident. Romney strikes them as someone who just wants the title of president.

They felt that Romney does not speak in a way that they can understand, that he doesn't talk like "regular" people. This was a strongly reoccuring theme--that Obama seemed to be someone who understood the lives of normal people whereas Mitt seemed more removed from their experiences. They respected Mitt Romeny's experience as a businessman but didn't see that as making him a better president.

Their main criticism of Obama was that he was "too nice."

No students mentioned their gratitude for Obama's many government handouts and their excitement about they and their families getting to live on Obama Bucks for another four years if he is reelected.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:25 PM   #389
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I also find the shock/outrage at what he said to be a bit puzzling given that's exactly what the Republican views have been for years now. Mitt just said out loud what the rest of them are thinking.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is speaking for all Republican or Republican-leaning people. There have already been several Republicans disavow what he said in fairly strong terms. It does, however, seem to me like Mitt is gravitating more and more toward the Libertarian crowd, as his comments seem tailor-made for the big-money folks in that political group. Maybe he is shaken by the lingering support for Ron Paul - who knows.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:34 PM   #390
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Andrew Sullivan breaks down the 47%'ers implications:

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Romney called 47 percent of Americans self-described victims. And here's what he thinks his relationship to them should be in the context of this campaign:

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[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
They couldn't even be convinced to take care of themselves, as long as they can get government handouts. Romney thinks that applies to almost one in two Americans. Or to put it bluntly: the real crime of 47 percent of Americans is their laziness - and then they have the gall to whine about the One Percent. He is using the key argument of racists against African-Americans through the ages against 47 percent of the country. That's the equivalent of calling a lot of old white people the n-word.

Romney's Randian callousness also goes against the core American grain. Americans do not see themselves as victims, but as potential winners, even in rough times. Romney's contempt for the 47 percent violates a central tenet of the American dream: anyone can make it. Romney is saying that half the country can't make it, don't even want to make it, and are parasites on the rest. Asking for their vote would be like asking children to give up their toys. Why would they?

More to the point: this was a cynical man with a cynical tone different - and more convincing - than his usual stilted public speech. The best defense of it - morally - is that it was designed for an audience of super-rich donors who say these things all the time in private, listen to Rush Limbaugh, and needed to be ginned up. He is whatever he needs to be for each separate audience. He aims to please.

So there are two possibilities: this is the real Romney, a callous cynic with contempt for half the country, the weaker part; or that Romney is a man so empty of human qualities he even has to fake cynicism.
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