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Old 03-13-2010, 02:07 PM   #16
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And they make more sense than Vermont, politically.

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I hear the ice fishing is pretty poor in Florida. We would have traded them Vermont for Florida eventually.
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:41 PM   #17
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BVS, I think most people understand the difference between "A Christian Nation" and "a nation of Christians." I submit we are the latter.

You say we are neither?
First of all, yes most should understand this difference but I don't think a lot do, especially those that align with the further right. You can't be oblivious to this? I mean just be honest with yourself.

I would say we're a nation that's majority Christian. That being said when it comes to the public sector, law, etc that shoudn't mean a thing.
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:12 PM   #18
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Christian means nothing

truth be told - nothing has more value.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:17 PM   #19
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BVS, I think most people understand the difference between "A Christian Nation" and "a nation of Christians." I submit we are the latter.

You say we are neither?
So if we are "a nation of Christians," what does that make all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus, not to mention atheists and agnostics? Second-class citizens?
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:00 PM   #20
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So if we are "a nation of Christians," what does that make all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus, not to mention atheists and agnostics? Second-class citizens?
Minorities?
True, it would be more accurate to say "mostly a nation of Christians" which is no doubt becoming more diverse in belief as well as in skin color and background. But I thought that was understood.
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:03 PM   #21
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Miniority entities that don't matter.

The founders were white straight Christian(supposedly) males, so that's how it should be.

Have you learned nothing from the Tea Party?
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:12 PM   #22
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We needed Hawaii to provide us our 44th president
i thought you said he was from kenya
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:32 PM   #23
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Miniority entities that don't matter.

The founders were white straight Christian(supposedly) males, so that's how it should be.

Have you learned nothing from the Tea Party?
Is that what you've learned from Tea Parties and Glenn Beck? Me, I've been reminded just how much the Founders feared a powerful and intrusive government and wrote the Constitution to check and restrict that power.

Some people would rather not be reminded of that it seems.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:34 PM   #24
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i thought you said he was from kenya
I rise to ask for unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:09 PM   #25
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Is that what you've learned from Tea Parties and Glenn Beck?
It's one of the things. I've seen the Tea Party members, the AM radio hacks, and even yourself get up in arms when Obama suggests we are not a Judeo-Christian nation or such comments that are in the similar realm. I'm glad to see you are stepping away from that, even if it's just a little.

And yes, you, Beck and the others have been reinforcing for years the thought that minorities really shouldn't matter, we were here first and we like it the way it was. You've even admitted and stood up very fondly for your belief that you wished it was like it was back in the 50's, and you weren't talking about the cars. Status quo!!!

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Me, I've been reminded just how much the Founders feared a powerful and intrusive government and wrote the Constitution to check and restrict that power.

Some people would rather not be reminded of that it seems.
You defended the intrusive Patriot Act, you were pretty quiet during Bush's bailouts, so please tell me what changed? What has Obama actually done that has been more intrusive than Bush?

I'm reminded how much the tea partiers are raging uninformed hypocrites.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:24 PM   #26
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Is that what you've learned from Tea Parties and Glenn Beck? Me, I've been reminded just how much the Founders feared a powerful and intrusive government and wrote the Constitution to check and restrict that power.

Some people would rather not be reminded of that it seems.
Glenn Beck and the Tea Party movement completely bastardize everything the founders of the country stand for.

Some people would rather not be informed of that, it seems.

The beginnings of this country were about being progressive, more than anything. They wouldn't want us to pretend it's not 2010. They'd want us to keep evolving.

The Tea Party movement wishes we were back in the 1950s. Before we started respecting minorities. Before we started respecting the value of secularism. Back when a good war could solve all of our problems.

The Tea Party movement is borderline retarded, is my point.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:23 PM   #27
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As long as little San Francisco would still keep it out of the pledge
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:44 PM   #28
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The beginnings of this country were about being progressive, more than anything .
with this, you and progressives that present these arguments are just as guilty as Beck and Tea Partiers

everyone wants to define the so-called 'Founding Fathers' to suit their own agenda

The so-called "Founding Fathers' were for the most part moneyed powerful men that did things for their own self interests (selfish reasons).
If a person without resourses wanted to jump in, say a Thomas Payne, and write a 'Contract for America' a la Newt Gingrich style, he would be allowed on the playing feild to further the agneda.

I don't get the 'deifying' of these politicians of the past and 'demonizing' of current politicians.
People are 'better' today then they were back then.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:39 PM   #29
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The Tea Party movement is borderline retarded.
Ok Rahm.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:48 PM   #30
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The beginnings of this country were about being progressive, more than anything.
Really, being progressive?

Nothing about TAXES?
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