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Old 01-19-2010, 02:07 AM   #31
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Knew Keith O would be good tonight and he didn't disappoint. Here is his ringing endorsement of Martha Coakley.
Quote:
"In Scott Brown we have an irresponsible, homophobic, racist, reactionary, ex-nude model, teabagging supporter of violence against woman and against politicians with whom he disagrees."
Scott Brown just being the latest [insert name of conservative or moderate here] to be called "racist" or "homophobic" in lieu of recognition of legitimate dissent and actual debate. I kinda know the feeling.

Keith closes with...
Quote:
the commonwealth of Massachusetts is close to sending this bad joke to the Senate of the United States.
The joke's on you Keith.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:11 AM   #32
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Knew Keith O would be good tonight and he didn't disappoint. Here is his ringing endorsement of Martha Coakley.

Scott Brown just being the latest [insert name of conservative or moderate here] to be called "racist" or "homophobic" in lieu of recognition of legitimate dissent and actual debate.

Keith closes with...

The joke's on you Keith.
i'm glad the right is above such tactics.

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:22 AM   #33
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You expect a moderate, bipartison, reformer-of-the-politics-of-old president to appeal to the minority of far right cranks in the Tea Party movement?
You're not American so I don't blame you for having the wrong impression of the Tea Party thing.

It is much more than "far right cranks," it also includes a sizeable amount of moderates, independents and WTF? Democrats.
Or as David Brooks wrote:
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The tea party movement is a large, fractious confederation of Americans who are defined by what they are against. They are against the concentrated power of the educated class. They believe big government, big business, big media and the affluent professionals are merging to form self-serving oligarchy — with bloated government, unsustainable deficits, high taxes and intrusive regulation.
Indeed, although I'd make it "self-serving, arrogant oligarchy."
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:13 AM   #34
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You really don't get it.

If President Obama had even remotely governed the past year as the moderate, bi-partisan, reformer-of-the-politics-of-old president he campaigned to be there would be no such thing as the Tea Party movement.
Bullshit, the Tea Party movement were already gathering on Jan 2oth. This wasn't about how he governed... and I'm sure it wasn't racially motivated either. INDY your memory is failing you in your're old age.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:02 AM   #35
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Bullshit, the Tea Party movement were already gathering on Jan 2oth. This wasn't about how he governed... and I'm sure it wasn't racially motivated either. INDY your memory is failing you in your're old age.
Rick Santelli's Feb 19th CNBC rant against the president's home mortgage bailout plan is the earliest call for a tea party I know of and it was half in jest.

FREEDOM EDEN: Rick Santelli: Tea Party

The earliest actual gatherings were April, 15th 2009. Tax Day. The same day the FYM Tea Party thread was started by the way.

But if you can link us to reports of earlier gatherings please do.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:25 PM   #36
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do the Republicans have any -- any -- sort of plan for actually governing the country? or do they simply exist to whip up populist anger -- created, as we know, by Bush policies of war and debt -- and aim it at whatever target they so choose?

if the GOP had anything constructive to offer, or appeared to be even remotely interested in actually governing the country, i'd almost take joy in the Democrats losing because it appears as of Coakley is god-awful. but the Republicans seem interested in only tearing down the ability of government to do anything beyond blow up Arabs, torture people in Gitmo to death, and lower taxes.

there appears to be only one adult in DC who wishes to actually do his job and govern, thankfully he's the president.
Yeah, I'm feeling that way today too. I wish this wasn't happening in my state.. but the anger and righteousness is every where.

What I am not understanding is why didn't the GOP work on the health care reform? Why is it that none of them invested time in it? Instead the energy was spent scaring people from it. I am hearing people voting for Scott Brown saying "yeah, we need to change that.. but this was too rushed and done behind closed doors".. I just don't understand how 40 Senators can just sit there and finger point/diss.. We all want to complain about how bad things are and then make sure we do nothing about anything.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:42 PM   #37
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Rick Santelli's Feb 19th CNBC rant against the president's home mortgage bailout plan is the earliest call for a tea party I know of and it was half in jest.

FREEDOM EDEN: Rick Santelli: Tea Party

The earliest actual gatherings were April, 15th 2009. Tax Day. The same day the FYM Tea Party thread was started by the way.

But if you can link us to reports of earlier gatherings please do.
Ok, the article I found before making that post was incorrect, they may have not been gathering under the guise of tea partiers on that date, but they were protesting with the same ignorance that they are now. "Communism", "Cut spending not Military" blah, blah, blah... all without any sense of irony for Bush's spending and leadership as their lips were firmly planted on his ass for 8 years.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:23 PM   #38
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Scott Brown does not support violence against women-that's an outrageous statement, but it is Keith Olbermann. Coakley claims in her ads that he filed some bill to prevent hospitals from giving emergency contraceptives. But he says it was only for Catholic hospitals and that Ted Kennedy had the same position. I haven't read enough about it to know for sure-all the ads just turn me off so much.

I do think Scott Brown is presenting himself to be a more moderate Republican in order to get elected in MA. I have serious doubts as to what he would be if he wins. He says he is in favor of universal health care but that we need to start over, so clearly he will proudly vote against the bill if he gets in. Supposedly he doesn't believe that people with preexisting conditions should be eligible, and that's a huge negative for me. He also claimed he didn't even know that the Tea Party groups exist/what they are while he was having rallies and functions and they were present. They have also bought ads for him and are clearly in a huge push to get him elected. My gut tells me they would really like what he does when he gets in there and that the guy is nowhere near as moderate as he has presented himself to be. But it is definitely the economy, stupid. Whole different ballgame if the economy was robust-and if the Democrats had a better candidate.

He says he supports Roe v Wade as the law of the land but he's endorsed by right to life groups

Who knows I don't like either of them
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:31 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Massachusetts has always been an odd duck,
yes it is perceived to be a liberal state, the registration and elected officials skew heavily towards the Democrats

but scratch the surface a little, and racism and sexism are doing just fine

What does the racism and sexism have to do with this election?
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:35 PM   #40
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Very bad form at Coakley (Choaklee) campaign office:

RealClearPolitics - Video - Coakley's Office Throws Out Reporter

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Old 01-19-2010, 03:18 PM   #41
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Jon Stewart took on the race for Ted Kennedy's Senate seat last night, taking jabs at the Democrats in the process. Upon hearing that Republican candidate Scott Brown was leading the polls, Stewart was dumbfounded that the Kennedy legacy could be lost to "a naked guy who owns a truck."

Confounding him even more were the actions of Democratic candidate Martha Coakley, who has made a series of gaffs in her campaign and few attempts to be likable. After running the down the series of insults she's made to Boston, Stewart jokingly added: "Coakley went into the bar in 'Cheers,' and didn't know anybody's name."

But what irked Stewart the most was the mindset among Democrats that if they lose this seat, they'll lose their chance of passing health care reform. Reaching his breaking point, Stewart detailed the ridiculous logic:


"If this lady loses, the health care reform bill that the beloved late senator considered his legacy, will die. And the reason it will die... is because if Coakley loses, Democrats will only have an 18 vote majority in the Senate, which is more than George W. Bush ever had in the Senate when did whatever the fuck he wanted to."

After explaining more of the Democrats inability to defeat the Republicans' strategies, he closed, saying:

"It's not that the Democrats are playing checkers and the Republicans are playing chess. It's that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because once again they glued their balls to their thighs."

Video: Mass Backwards | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:13 PM   #42
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Jon Stewart is a comedian, right?
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:15 PM   #43
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Jon Stewart is a comedian, right?
Right-but he's dead right there too

Democrats need to unstick their balls
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #44
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Your construct is meaningless. They're not doing it TO only curb waste, but cutting useless programs like Medicare Advantage and reducing Medicare's rate of growth IS the mechanism for how they'll pay for the insurance subsidies, and if they do it right Medicare's quality of care will actually improve. Anyway, someone will eventually have to do exactly what Scott Brown is condemning, even a conservative/libertarian with a different ultimate aim like eventually weaning seniors off of a single-payer system, or just paying down the debt or whatever. As long as he tells voters that Even Considering cutting Medicare is a reason to throw out the opposition, Brown's maliciously trying to halt meaningful progress in America.

Again, it's ok to say "I agree that there should be cuts, but they need to be better targeted at X and Y rather then W and Z" or "I agree that there should be cuts, but we need to pocket all the savings and return it to the American people". But he sounds like a Bush Republican. It's bad to borrow trillions of dollars- so I'm proposing tax cuts! Wooo!
This is spot on!

And no, the health care bill is not a new entitlement. It is regulatory reforms in the current system, cost saving incentives, an exchange to increase competition and expansion of coverage through subsidies to buy private insurance. Subsidies already exist in the form of tax deductions, etc, this is just building on the current system. An entitlement is a mandatory spending program that ALL people meeting a certain criteria of age and work history get no matter what. The only entitlements are social security and medicare. The spending on subsidies in the health care bill is means tested(400% of poverty level and below) and discretionary.

Brown is a Bush Republican in the sense that he is promising the moon in terms of entitlements(Bush prescription drug boondoggle) and saying that they are sacred and should be protected from any "cuts." Of course, as you point out, medicare advantage is an unnecessary, non core part of the Medicare program and is not a cut that will hurt the basic intent of Medicare. Bush, on the other hand made plenty of these cuts, and starting with Gingrich, Republicans proposed to gut the program.

The Republicans' trying to make Democratic reforms that save money out to be weakening of the Medicare program are laughable. They have done this since the 1993 Clinton Medicare reforms, which saved the program billions and extended it out to about 2020. And no, I am not some blind idiot making Republican cuts out to be the devil's spawn and Democratic cuts out to be cost saving reforms, I am just looking at the history of the parties.

The Republicans never liked medicare in the first place, never voted for it, would like it gone. Therefore, they are promising to protect medicare just to get elected by senior citizens(the only group that consistently votes). Republicans have no good faith intentions of "saving" Medicare.

One of the best ads I have ever seen was by Clinton in 1996. He just runs tape of Bob Dole saying he was proud to have voted against Medicare when it was created. Clinton then asks: can you believe the Republicans when they say they want to save Medicare?

With Brown it boils down to this: He is GOING TO CUT TAXES, THATS CLEAR FROM HIS CAMPAIGN. HE WANTS 15% ACROSS THE BOARD. The problem, he constantly talks about cutting spending as well. So did Bush. So did Delay/Hastert/Frist. Big spenders all. The problem, Brown with statements like his on Medicare, shows clearly he does not even understand where the majority of our spending problem comes from:ENTITLEMENTS. The reason entitlement spending is going up is not because Democrats have created a bunch of new ones(the only new one was Bush in 03), but because HEALTH CARE COSTS IN GENERAL ARE RISING. Absent a Brown plan on health care(I don't care if he is against Obama's, but what is his alternative?), he does not address spending in a responsible way. He is all for more defense spending as well. Add up entitlements and defense, and you are left with VERY LITTLE SPENDING TO CUT. Even then, all discretionary spending, and I am not defending this, but it is true regardless of party, has a constituency.

Brown does not get it. He says "elect me so I can pass on tough decisions about the federal budget to an independent commission." Said commission would certainly recommend to raise taxes and cut spending, but Brown says that he would ignore them if they say raise taxes! That is just completely unrealistic given our deficit. Plus, the commission would not be looking at entitlements. Well, thats political courage and willingness to make tough decisions!! Obama has already ended multiple programs, proposed to cut farm subsidies, had federal agencies identify cuts, etc. He is making the hard decisions, and paying for them. The left is pissed, the right is pissed, the Unions are pissed(on healthcare and education), but at least he is taking on the big problems as promised.

Is he perfect, no. Is the Health bill perfect? Certainly not. Is Congress going to go along with the farm subsidy cuts? Not right now. However, a few things: Obama never claimed to be perfect, he warned everyone who thought he was some kind of messiah that he was not, so it is their stupidity if they are disappointed. Given what he inherited, he had no choice but to spend on the stimulus, economists across the spectrum agree on this. There is just no way possible that Obama could have come in in January 2009 and have 15 million jobs and 5% unemployment by today! Me, I say let the tea baggers be pissed, we have a growing economy again, let the automakers be pissed, they now have to retool and be smaller and more efficent, let the teachers unions be pissed, we now have federal education money conditioned on achieving results(charter schools, closing underperforming schools), and let the labor unions be pissed, we are going to have a deficit neutral, incentive changing health care reform bill. Let the bankers be pissed, but Obama is getting back money that is ours. Obama promised to take on the big interests and so far, he has delivered. It will take more than a year to recover from this mess, but results are already there for those who look.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:23 PM   #45
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Very bad form at Coakley (Choaklee) campaign office:

RealClearPolitics - Video - Coakley's Office Throws Out Reporter

Hi Dave,

I agree. Those 2 were definitely Union Teamster thugs who think they are mafiosos. The reporters were on private property, but that problem is solved by the time 2 seconds elapse in the video. Once they are on the sidewalk, no need for the "get the fuc% out of here" and "Nazi" comments.

Coakley was a great, independent minded prosecutor her entire career, is not part of the Boston Democratic establishment, but has sold her sole to them in place of real campaigning. I had a strong preference for one of her opponents in the Democratic primary because she was taking this for granted from day 1, and the other gentleman had a deep knowledge of economic issues, she really does not.

I voted for her today, but 2 things for you and the other more Republican leaning people here:

1.)If she loses, she will have earned it and Brown will have earned the win.

2.)If she wins, I truly hope we get the Martha Coakley that was a well liked, tough, independent thinker who drew support from Democrats, independents and moderate Republicans as a high profile, no non sense prosecutor. I truly hope we, and you all, are not subjected to the union puppet, far left appeasing(Afghanistan), non campaigning, take-it-for granted Coakley we have seen in 2009/10!
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