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Old 01-30-2010, 08:12 PM   #286
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Ok, so make the presidency hereditary and create a house of lords... oh wait.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:37 PM   #287
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I find it worrying that so many trust the military but not the elected civilian government that it answers to (in both instances as a matter of principle). That is not a healthy sign for the future.
Let me rephrase that, I trust the miltary enough to let it do it's job.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:24 PM   #288
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Yeah, that's fine. No reason not to, they are after all held to a high standard as an institution. But it's not really their job, it's our job (for whatever meaning of 'our'; I'm not American) as delegated to them. As they are an instrument of the civilian state.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:26 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
So we just beat the shit out of anybody we want and throw them in jail if they're not an American citizen?
No, not according to the US Constitution. The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

In many places, I can find "no person." I never find "no citizen." Yes, our rules regarding detention, trials, etc apply to everyone. The Supreme Court has ruled unanimously on this many, many times(liberals and conservatives) and its written down in the text of the Constitution plain as day.

Again, the Constitution does not say what citizens can or can not do, it says what the government can and can not do.

Just another case of Indy opening his mouth before he has the facts.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:55 AM   #290
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If one fundamentally believes in limited government. And takes radical Islamists at their word when they state they have declared war on us. How could they NOT have serious issues with the way Democrats and the Obama administration have governed the past year?
1.)How do you define limited government? By the size of government? Size of budgets? Number of gov't employees? Control of gov't over your personal life?

I don't see Republicans doing a good job on any of this, ever. Especially the spending and government employees side. The problem is conservatives always talk about limited government, but they can't give us a legitimate measure by which it succeeds under them. No sex, abstinence only. Marriage not for gays. We can listen to your calls w/o wiretaps. We spend more money, increase debt, increase # of gov't employees.

Where is the limited government you fundamentally believe in seen in action under Republican leadership?

2.)I take Al Qaeda at their word when they say they have declared war on us, I do not know anyone who does not. I have a good friend whose Dad got on a plane one perfect September morning for a business trip and all that was left of him by afternoon was bone fragments. You would have more credibility here if you stayed away from these broad, baseless generalizations. Contrary to what the right thinks, we are still at war, and Obama, Democrats and Republicans are taking it extremely seriously. Record number of drone strikes in Pakistan, more AQ leaders captured in 09 than 08, major plots disrupted, etc. Look at defense spending, intelligence spending, a whole new Department of Homeland Security, all of that now compared to 9/11. Its a straight line upward, continued by Obama this year and in the years he has budgeted for. You can not argue that Obama or Democrats are not taking AQ's declaration of war seriously with any level of capability.

What is the matter with you that you would even think that over 69 million Americans(# of votes for Obama) do not take the threat we face seriously? Undoubtedly, that group included cops, firefighters, airline pilots, airline employees and NYC area folks who went to work one September morning and came home that night without a dedicated co worker or family member or friend. It also included family members of victims of the 9/11 attacks.Now, everyone, if you are reading this, regardless of your views, think about it. He should really answer this paragraph, shouldn't he? INDY can say whatever the hell he wants, but I think this is something anyone, Democrat or Republican, can agree is absurd. Didn't Indy just accuse a whole bunch of good Americans of not caring that we were attacked? Of not caring that we are threatened?

All you have put up is your "mirandizing terrorists" b.s., which, by the way, Bush did as well. So did Clinton. So did Bush 41. And Reagan. And Carter. And..... every other President going back to Washington, when our Article III court system was established.

The problem with conservatives today is that a good amount of them see absolutely no problem with the kind of statement that you just made. They see no problem, in fact, it is funny when RNC delegates mock John Kerry's Purple Hearts that he received for wounds sustained in battle. Never mind the fact that all those people weighed about 300 lbs and would shit their pants in combat. I routinely hear conservatives call for Obama to be hung from a tree, only to have their friends laugh at such a comment. Republican members of Congress have no problem calling the President anti American, or with questioning his place of birth, when they know damn well where he was born.

This movement has reached a new low in terms of outright lies and character assassinations that dishonor millions of good, hardworking, patriotic Americans.

I have said it before and it bears repeating, Joe McCarthy was a big deal because it was so much the exception to the rule of civility in politics back then. Go through the 20th century. You will find spirited debate. You will not find the kind of mean spirited, personal attacks on character, turn everything into a culture war, relentless and blatant lying by Republicans until Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich came on the scene. Ever since then, it has been lie, lie, lie(Clinton gave us the biggest tax increase ever!!!!) and personal destruction of any prominent Democrat- think Dan Burton and Bill Clinton.

Jimmy Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman, FDR, Democratic members of Congress throughout this time period were not subjected to the kind of smears and constant personal attacks that Kerry, Durbin, Reid, Pelosi, both Clinton's and Obama face. Not even close. All the conservatives love Reagan, but he would give them a slap across the face these days for their lack of class and civility in dealing with the other side.

So to those who say that the Tea Baggers are protesting a black President, yes, maybe that is a small element of it. The element that started with the birther movement. However, what they are really protesting, egged on by pundits and Republican politicians, is a President with a "D" after his name. Ever since Clinton was elected, the Republicans have never been able to accept the fact that a Democrat can be President.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:02 AM   #291
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Good post, U2387. I agree with pretty much everything you said (Except for Bill Clinton, I think he destroyed himself when he lied to Congress.) But yeah, really good post. And this is coming from a conservative.
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:41 PM   #292
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Hunky Scott Brown Is Every Democrat's Fantasy (VIDEO)

Scott Brown is no Jon Hamm, that's for sure
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:50 PM   #293
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"I'm glad to be in such distinguished company," Brown said of the findings.

I wonder if the tea bag crowd would have been so 'excited' going to the polls if he said this before the election?

Obama, Scott Brown are cousins: genealogist
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:12 PM   #294
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1.)How do you define limited government? By the size of government? Size of budgets? Number of gov't employees? Control of gov't over your personal life?
Efficient government. Responsive to the electorate. Diligent in its constitutional duties over a perpetual desire to expand.

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2.)I take Al Qaeda at their word when they say they have declared war on us, I do not know anyone who does not.
While no one disputes that the president is free change policies from the previous administration. How else to explain "terrorism" being rebranded as "man-made disaster" and "overseas contingency operations." The Homeland Secretary focusing on "Right-wing extremists (veterans, third party members and Pro-Life Christians) at the beginning of her term. The irresponsible declaration on the presidents 1st day that he would close Gitmo by year's end. The KSM (not thought out at all) and Underwear bomber ("system worked," " isolated extremist") fiascos.

Gee, hard to imagine how Americans feel a little uncomfortable with the president on this issue.
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Contrary to what the right thinks, we are still at war, and Obama, Democrats and Republicans are taking it extremely seriously. Record number of drone strikes in Pakistan, more AQ leaders captured in 09 than 08, major plots disrupted, etc. Look at defense spending, intelligence spending, a whole new Department of Homeland Security, all of that now compared to 9/11. Its a straight line upward, continued by Obama this year and in the years he has budgeted for. You can not argue that Obama or Democrats are not taking AQ's declaration of war seriously with any level of capability.
I've given credit and the Republicans in congress have supported the president as commander-in-chief and his actions overseas. But who is it that feels betrayed by the president actions here? The anti-war Left who don't take the (so-called) War on Terror serious and never have.
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Didn't Indy just accuse a whole bunch of good Americans of not caring that we were attacked? Of not caring that we are threatened?[/U][/B]
No, you know I didn't say that. It's a difference of philosophies. War on Terror vs a Trial on Terror. The president and anti-war Left isn't with the American people on this.
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All you have put up is your "mirandizing terrorists" b.s., which, by the way, Bush did as well. So did Clinton. So did Bush 41. And Reagan. And Carter. And..... every other President going back to Washington, when our Article III court system was established.
The War on Terror is a war unlike any other. Bush had to draw up plans of engagement against an ideology without borders or uniforms where information was more important than military artillery. Some things could have been done differently in hindsight but a) he was successful in preventing attacks b) he did everything with congressional oversight and c) there was precedent, including the 1942 Quirin case (unlawful combatants).

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This movement has reached a new low in terms of outright lies and character assassinations that dishonor millions of good, hardworking, patriotic Americans.
As opposed to the "millions of good, hardworking, patriotic Americans" ridiculed as racist, ignorant Teabaggers.
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I have said it before and it bears repeating, Joe McCarthy was a big deal because it was so much the exception to the rule of civility in politics back then. Go through the 20th century. You will find spirited debate. You will not find the kind of mean spirited, personal attacks on character, turn everything into a culture war, relentless and blatant lying by Republicans until Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich came on the scene. Ever since then, it has been lie, lie, lie(Clinton gave us the biggest tax increase ever!!!!) and personal destruction of any prominent Democrat- think Dan Burton and Bill Clinton.

Jimmy Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman, FDR, Democratic members of Congress throughout this time period were not subjected to the kind of smears and constant personal attacks that Kerry, Durbin, Reid, Pelosi, both Clinton's and Obama face. Not even close. All the conservatives love Reagan, but he would give them a slap across the face these days for their lack of class and civility in dealing with the other side.
Surely you jest. Though I'll give you a pass as you were born in 1987. The hatred for Richard Nixon goes back to when he was vice president. Reagan was vilified in Europe (listen to a Bono "Ronald Raygun" speech) because of arms race and here because he dared to slow the growth of government. Same with Gingrich. Despised by the political Left and accused of hating the poor and children.
But where were you for BusHitler's 8 years? Fahrenheit 911, Cindy Sheehan, Buck Fush stickers, "Bush Doesn't Care About Black People," etc?

And you think Abraham Lincoln was as uniformly loved in 1864 as he is now?
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:42 AM   #295
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Abraham Lincoln didn't lose two wars, watch New Orleans sink, and create the worst financial disaster in 75 years by cutting taxes and spending in a way that the most taxy-spendy liberal would never have dreamed.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:21 AM   #296
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To support George W. Bush and call for limited government is a laughable contradiction.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:29 AM   #297
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To support George W. Bush and call for limited government is a laughable contradiction.


it's just about the most shocking thing about the GOP. they didn't meet a Bush spending proposal they couldn't jump behind -- farm bills! expansion of senior prescription entitlements! and let's not talk about the pork that the rural states get because of their wild overrepresentation in the Senate -- and then, in the face of enormous fiscal crisis, NOT A SINGLE ONE of them voted for the stimulus.

that, right there, tells you that all this talk of fiscal responsibility is a downright lie. all they want to do is oppose Obama, and they do so at their own peril.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:13 PM   #298
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We don't want any (closeted) gays in the GOP!

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Election 2010: Florida Republican Primary for Senate
Florida GOP Senate: Rubio 49%, Crist 37%

Monday, February 01, 2010

Former state House Speaker Marco Rubio has now jumped to a 12-point lead over Governor Charlie Crist in Florida’s Republican Primary race for the U.S. Senate.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of likely GOP Primary voters in the state finds Rubio leading Crist 49% to 37%. Three percent (3%) prefer another candidate, and 11% are undecided.
The new numbers mark a stunning turnaround. Crist was the strong favorite when he first announced for the Senate seat, and Rubio was viewed as a long-shot challenger.
But Crist’s support fell from 53% in August to 49% in October. By December, the two men were tied at 43% apiece.
Rubio leads Crist by 17 points among men and by seven among women. He also carries 52% of the conservative GOP vote, while moderates prefer Crist.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:18 PM   #299
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Abraham Lincoln didn't lose two wars
Pretty sure Bush didn't either?
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:38 PM   #300
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Pretty sure Bush didn't either?


the original objectives in Afghanistan and Iraq were not met, and the goalposts have been consistently lowered and changed with each passing year.
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