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Old 01-22-2010, 01:24 PM   #166
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We couldn't afford it, that's why it was stopped, common sense voters in Mass recognized this, and that's why they stopped it-it's that simple.

So, the current system we have now needs to be modified, streamlined and corrected,
NOT eliminated and replaced with something MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE that doesn't adequately fixed the problem and shackle us w something that we cannot afford.

This isn't rocket science, only fiscal soundness.

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Old 01-22-2010, 01:53 PM   #167
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We couldn't afford it, that's why it was stopped, common sense voters in Mass recognized this, and that's why they stopped it-it's that simple.
But this has never been the argument. The tea partiers are not holding up signs that say it's not fiscally responsible, they're holding up signs that say "socialism" and comparing Obama to Hitler. So don't ever pretend this is the issue. And it definately was not Brown's stance, he voted for healthcare reform on the state level that would have pissed off most Republicans and tea partiers, he just said he couldn't vote for the bill the way it is now, and that was mostly just to get his votes.

If money is your reason for being against it then that's fine but be consistent in arguing for every stance based on that, which you don't do. The cost is an issue; one I think Republicans are skewing and one that Dems are not paying close enough attention to, but I don't think that's the core issue at all.

Do you argue money when it comes to the defense of our country? Then why do you argue money when it comes to the defending the health of our citizens?



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So, the current system we have now needs to be modified, streamlined and corrected,
No the current system needs to be completely reformed, the current system is not working and only getting worse.
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Old 01-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #168
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It's the economy stupid. As the expression goes. It's not going well, the Democrats are in power, so they vote in the Republican. If it was reverse, then the democrat wins.

Plenty of other things going on of course, but in my home state of MA, I think it mostly angry about the economy. Health care wasn't an issue, because we already have a better version than the congress is proposing. And Martha rang a horrible campaign.

My friend nails it -- Steve Kornacki

And btw, women are 0 for 8 in MA running for Senate. So think more sexism than racism.


---
On a side note, nothing is more upsetting than people that are against the health care bill, that NEED it. Plenty of the people that are at the tea parties would benefit from this. They need it. But they listen to the people in charge and turn what should be a non political issue, into one.

Who has "socialist" health care. Well, everyone that works for the government and people on Medicare. So obviously, it's the end of times if we all have the same rights to it.

My friend just lost his job and all he cares about is the health insurance. I had cancer, so I stayed in a job because of it.

Only powerful country that makes it's citizens be afraid to get sick or leave a job due to health insurance. We make fun of France -- but guess what -- all citizens get health care.

How can this be a bad thing?

You don't need 60 votes. You need 51. Just pass the fucker.
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:37 PM   #169
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and the independent vote is largely white. and if Buchanan is to be believed, race has a lot to do with why the independents are anti-incumbent?
No, Buchanan isn't to be believed on this one

Was he expecting blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics to flip to the right? Of course independent whites are going to be the big swing vote. Who else is going to move the needle? While I agree with Buchanan that Obama is losing the white vote, it's because of policies, not pigment.
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Old 01-22-2010, 04:53 PM   #170
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On a side note, nothing is more upsetting than people that are against the health care bill, that NEED it. Plenty of the people that are at the tea parties would benefit from this. They need it. But they listen to the people in charge and turn what should be a non political issue, into one.
The more people hear and see what's going on, the less they like it. It's been a steady decline in support for over 9 months on Harry and Nancy's health care plans.

Senator Brown gives Congress a chance to re-boot and maybe get more than 35% of the folks to support their health bill.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:00 PM   #171
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The more people hear and see what's going on, the less they like it.
I think it's more about WHAT people are hearing and seeing...

The Dems have done a horrific job of keeping the public informed. The only outlets that are really talking about it are the notjob outlets, while Rush and Palin are talking about death panels, the White House and other outlets are remaining fairly quiet comparably. He who screams the loudest...
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:19 PM   #172
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Wait, how come all you people aren't screaming JUDICIAL ACTIVISM!!!!

Surely INDY is offended, given how he posts ad nauseum about the courts deciding what the law is.
Cause I can find freedom of speech in the Bill Of Rights. Still looking for marriage equality.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:24 PM   #173
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But I do find equality, go fucking figure...

but nice try.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:26 PM   #174
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PRESIDENT OBAMA: Here's my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country. The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office. People are angry, and they're frustrated. Not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years.
--Jan 20th interview with George Stephanopoulos
So who's right. Pat Buchanan or President Obama?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:32 PM   #175
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RealClearPolitics - The Meaning of Brown

Quote:
After Coakley's defeat, Obama pretended that the real cause was a generalized anger and frustration "not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years."

Let's get this straight: The antipathy to George W. Bush is so enduring and powerful that ... it just elected a Republican senator in Massachusetts? Why, the man is omnipotent.

And the Democrats are delusional: Scott Brown won by running against Obama not Bush. He won by brilliantly nationalizing the race, running hard against the Obama agenda, most notably Obamacare. Killing it was his No. 1 campaign promise.

Bull's-eye. An astonishing 56 percent of Massachusetts voters, according to Rasmussen, called health care their top issue. In a Fabrizio, McLaughlin & Associates poll, 78 percent of Brown voters said their vote was intended to stop Obamacare. Only a quarter of all voters in the Rasmussen poll cited the economy as their top issue, nicely refuting the Democratic view that Massachusetts was just the usual anti-incumbent resentment you expect in bad economic times.

Brown ran on a very specific, very clear agenda. Stop health care. Don't Mirandize terrorists. Don't raise taxes; cut them. And no more secret backroom deals with special interests.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:35 PM   #176
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But I do find equality, go fucking figure...

but nice try.
BVS, you find "equality" in the United States Constitution?

Where?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:47 PM   #177
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But I do find equality, go fucking figure...

but nice try.
Actually, homosexuals have no constitutional rights defending them from discrimination, if I understand it correctly. So, actually, no, equality is not in the Constitution.
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:01 PM   #178
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Ok, I'll stop gloating. [fingers crossed]
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:14 PM   #179
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BVS, you find "equality" in the United States Constitution?

Where?
The word does not exist but you've been showed, I don't know probably a hundred times by many in here how it exists in the interpretation of the constitution, but I guess you covered your ears and shut eyes the same way you do with healthcare everytime...
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:47 PM   #180
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The word does not exist but you've been showed, I don't know probably a hundred times by many in here how it exists in the interpretation of the constitution, but I guess you covered your ears and shut eyes the same way you do with healthcare everytime...
So you admit "equality" is in the "interpretation" of the Constitution.

It's a start.

Now if we can just get you and others to see that there may be reasons other than "homophobia" or "racism" to explain why someone may interpret the Constitution differently than you.
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