Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
Yeah, it's too bad theres nothing we can do...
Global Warming Revisited
- Thread starter the iron horse
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Yeah, it's too bad theres nothing we can do...
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the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
If this world stands, future generations will view this early 21th century hysteria on global warming as we now view the flat earth view from the past.
Quotes from link:
Claims that 2016 was “the hottest year on record” are drawing sharp criticism from scientists who say it reflects how global warming has become more social crusade than evidence-based science.
“The Obama administration relentlessly politicized science and it aggressively pushed a campaign about that politicized science,” said Steven E. Koonin, who served as under secretary for science in Obama’s Department of Energy from 2009 to 2011.
Scientists Criticize 'Hottest Year on Record' Claim as Hype | RealClearInvestigations
Quotes from link:
Claims that 2016 was “the hottest year on record” are drawing sharp criticism from scientists who say it reflects how global warming has become more social crusade than evidence-based science.
“The Obama administration relentlessly politicized science and it aggressively pushed a campaign about that politicized science,” said Steven E. Koonin, who served as under secretary for science in Obama’s Department of Energy from 2009 to 2011.
Scientists Criticize 'Hottest Year on Record' Claim as Hype | RealClearInvestigations
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
You're right, if government keeps shutting down the discussion as Trump has with the EPA(which you have unsurprisingly embraced) we will soon become a country that takes conservative websites who opens their argument with a big oil source seriously. We will become the idiocracy this president needs in order to run his agenda, and all of science will become 'flat earth'.
dabiggestu2fan
Rock n' Roll Doggie
As a scientist myself working in the environmental sector I can assure you that global warming is a very real thing! One needs to just look a the the historical data from the last few decades and see that something is happening! There is no question what so ever that we humans are influencing this, the real question is how much of an effect we have and how fast. And how long can we go on like this before we hit the point of no return. Regardless if you believe in human caused global warming or not, that is not the point, we should all do our part to try and preserve and improve our environment so that our children and grand children can enjoy clean water, beautiful rainforests and the beauty of Mother Nature. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we are polluting our land, oceans, lakes rivers and the air we so very much depend on to stay alive. You may deny global warming but you can't deny the pollution we are creating.
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dabiggestu2fan
Rock n' Roll Doggie
And people need to understand that as big as the earth may look like, it is STILL a closed system so whatever we pump out into our environment has an effect on the earth. Air pollution such as SOx and NOx and CO/CO2 doesn't just magically disappear into the endless space beyond earth.
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This is what I don't get...
Even if you believe that global warming isn't mad made, and it's something that simply happens every couple hundred years...
It's still nicer living with clean air and water than smog.
So what's the fucking problem one way or the other?
Even if you believe that global warming isn't mad made, and it's something that simply happens every couple hundred years...
It's still nicer living with clean air and water than smog.
So what's the fucking problem one way or the other?
gareth brown
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one of the stupidest things I've ever read here.
dabiggestu2fan
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Yep agreed! Comparing this to flat earthers IS simply beyond ridiculous!
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It's a child's game of sports team politics. People don't want to admit they're wrong, or that the stuff that the other side supports is maybe correct. It's the opposition's support that inherently establishes their view.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Don't forget, businesses can't thrive unless they are allowed to throw their garbage into the nearest lake.
I think this also largely ties into the delusion of the American Dream.
If you've bought into the idea that the American Dream is possible for all Americans [if they just worked hard enough], then you are able to dissociate from the reality of your socioeconomic position. This is why you have people in the lower and middle classes endlessly voting against their own self-interest and for the interest of the wealthy. Because they too can one day become [the fake] Joe the Plumber and make 6 figures, maybe even 7, per year and live a very nice and comfortable life. How will your plumbing business succeed if you have all these regulations and taxes??? Can't and won't, so therefore we don't want to impose any sort of cost on any business, big or small.
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
$$$
there's absolutely no other way round it.
and as for iron horse saying that climate change is somehow the equivalent as flat-earth deniers, you're very nearly there. except, of course, that it is you and your fellow deniers that are the flat-earthers.
honestly, in what other aspect of your life do you disagree with vast majority of professional opinion? if 95% of doctors told you that a certain surgery was needed to heal you of an ailment, would you be so sure to go with the 5% who had the opposite opinion?
out of curiosity, do you also deny evolution?
IWasBored
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Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
there usually is, in my experience anyway.
what i've also come across lately are the folks who say "yes, we believe in mico-evolution but not macro".
that's quite literally like saying 2+2=4, sure, but 12000+25000 doesn't make 37000
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
ironhorse, let's have a chat about climate change or the flat earth that has such sharp edges.
you still haven't responded, and since your eloquent president has recently decided to apply his scientific methods to establish that the paris agreement isn't worthy of the american signature, i would absolutely love to hear your utterly misinformed thoughts on the matter
you still haven't responded, and since your eloquent president has recently decided to apply his scientific methods to establish that the paris agreement isn't worthy of the american signature, i would absolutely love to hear your utterly misinformed thoughts on the matter
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
i can still call him out on it
kiwilad
Refugee
Lucky is right, it's cheering for your sports team more than forming a rational view.
I'm sure Anitram's point is correct too, for some, but on the whole I feel if Trump told his minions to start believing in goblins and witches they would.
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
i suspect as much, too.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
This is the biggest challenge the planet faces, and I think the collective shrug that it's being met with is going to prove catastrophic.
This is bigger than Trump, nuclear war, etc.
Optics is a problem, in that the public at large don't appreciate that an increase in temperature by 2 or 3 degrees in such a short period of time has/will create climate events that will prove extraordinarily expensive both financially and in human life.
This is bigger than Trump, nuclear war, etc.
Optics is a problem, in that the public at large don't appreciate that an increase in temperature by 2 or 3 degrees in such a short period of time has/will create climate events that will prove extraordinarily expensive both financially and in human life.
I'm not sure why people don't care. Maybe it's cause they believe these bad things are decades away that it'll change before then. Change for bad news to meh
But it appears as tho we'll continue to se these powerful storms hit and it'll drain our resources to build back up.
It's kinda scary to think about how much will change in a short amount of time. Just thinking about water supply and demand ....
But it appears as tho we'll continue to se these powerful storms hit and it'll drain our resources to build back up.
It's kinda scary to think about how much will change in a short amount of time. Just thinking about water supply and demand ....
dabiggestu2fan
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Well all these global warming deniers better get used to the storms like Irma, harvey, sandy etc because if nothing changes, they will become the norm.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I'd say arguing over hurricanes is a poor argument when it comes to global warming. Better to stick to the argument of rising sea levels, erosion, and general threat to low laying areas
Hurricanes are still highly probabilistic, and will be for some time. When someone suggests more are on the way due to global warming, and less come due to general cycles, you accidentally end up promoting the wrong brand of skepticism
Hurricanes are still highly probabilistic, and will be for some time. When someone suggests more are on the way due to global warming, and less come due to general cycles, you accidentally end up promoting the wrong brand of skepticism
Irvine511
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AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Once non-subsidized solar power is the cheapest energy source, and that is within a 5-10 years, none of this matters. What I mean by that is nobody will pay EXTRA money in order to pollute.
kiwilad
Refugee
Simplistic, but i get your point.
Issue is, pulling public money out of renewables R&D while at the same time championing coal and oil is counterproductive to that 5-10 year target.
That difference in opinion is shaping as a defining feature in my country's election right now. Here, both major parties are on the climate change bus, but one is much more 'softly softly' about how to deal with it. And for the first time that appears to be a vote loser.
Incidentally, Aeon, you said you were a military man - is there any sort of step change going on in the military re emissions, renewables etc?
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Gotta love, too, how all this stuff is happening the same year that Trump pulls the U.S. out of that Paris agreement.
On a non-political note, hope that anyone here who is either in the path of Irma or any people they know who are in its path are safe and sound somewhere. Take care, guys, and check in when you can so we know you're all right.
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AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Great question! Yes, I've seen a dramatic change in attitude and policy during my career. There is usually an Environmental Officer in every unit (extra duty for a Second Lieutenant (usually), but they make sure that all hazardous materials are accounted for (paints, solvents, oil, cleaner...)and they are stored and disposed of properly. There is civilian oversight and they perform audits and assist in the disposal process.
Also, parking a vehicle without an oil pan beneath will get you chewed out by a Senior NCO (and you'll also be digging out the oil spot with a shovel). All vehicle are assumed to be leaking...
While it will be some time before you see electric and natural gas vehicles on any large scale, there are projects and prototypes floating around. The military still uses stuff from the Gulf War...so it will take a long time to replace what is already out there....
The push to digital records has greatly reduced the amount of paper being used/stored. So, that's saving trees and reducing the need to house tons and tons of paper records...
On a more subjective level, almost every Soldier I work has general care and respect for the environment. We're out "in nature" often and when it's time to leave an area there is always a police call to pick up any trash. Leaving garbage will certainly get the leadership reprimanded.
Of course...I'm speaking of garrisons and training areas. During war...well...depends on the mission and the location. Some missions are actually setting up solar panels...other missions might be to blow up those same solar panels...
Kieran McConville
ONE love, blood, life
It's that it is collectively in the too-hard basket. It extends beyond any national border, and the policy progamme adopted by any single country or government is
a. often of symbolic value (eg. as if the Australian government doing the right thing - which it is not, for the most part - would make a lick of difference to the fate of the Great Barrier Reef; ocean and air currents don't stop at national borders)
and b. easily reversed by a successor government.
The various big ticket agreements (it used to be Kyoto, now it's Paris) are... unimpressive, to me. Do they have teeth where it counts?
It's simply in the too hard basket. There are silver linings in the impressive advance of some renewables like solar energy, and in technologies around battery storage, enough that coal, and eventually oil, probably have a pretty limited future. But that can be strung out for a long time and I guess we're stuck with the semi-predictable consequences.
One thing - whatever you think of her generally - that Naomi Klein got right in her book a few years back was that the far right in America were, despite themselves, making some kind of ideological sense in their utter rejection of the science behind climate change. Unlike many mainstream liberals, they correctly perceived that this absolutely does represent the end of business as usual.
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