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Old 09-03-2014, 12:24 PM   #31
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Why motivate through a fear of something we haven't fully defined yet? Why not teach environmental responsibility?


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I think this is a good point, though. The way it's been explained to me, global warming and cooling are things that happen to this planet over and over again, throughout time. What we're doing is speeding up the effects, but, in the end, it's an inevitability, isn't that right? Motivating through fear isn't the best way to motivate, IMO. Explaining it on a level ground, would be nice, is all I'm trying to say. It's not to say we shouldn't do anything, I just wish that people would explain things to people, without trying to scare them into action.


I hate this post, it doesn't sound like what I want to convey at all, but I just can't find the right way to say it.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:29 PM   #32
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Scientists are doing the public a disservice in their attempts to communicate certainty in climate change science, often giving a “false sense of debate” by being overly precise, says broadcaster and physicist Professor Brian Cox.

Climate scientists are 95% certain that humans are the main cause of the current global warming the world is experiencing. But Cox said this level of accuracy had been manipulated by “nonsensical”, politically-motivated climate sceptics.

“I think we do a disservice to the public. If you look down the [camera] lens and see your head of department or your PhD supervisor, whoever it might be, then you’ll start being scientifically precise and you’ll mislead the public. Because you’ll give them a false sense of debate,” he told an audience at a fundraiser for the Society of Biology.

He said scientists could say with total confidence that climate science was uncontroversial and the current predictions for warming were the best advice available.

“The scientific view at the time is the best, there’s nothing you can do that’s better than that. So there’s an absolutism. It’s absolutely the best advice,” he said.


Cox, a physicist who works on the Large Hadron Collider where the Higgs boson was discovered, said that 95% certainty in science is effectively total.

“We had it with the Large Hadron Collider and people were saying: “Is it going to destroy the world?” Well of course it bloody isn’t. But [in scientific terms] we’re putting a confidence level on that statement … at the 95% confidence level, but you don’t want to go there,” he said.

“What I think about climate change actually is it’s obviously true and clearly true to all of us who look at the debate that goes on.”

Cox told the Guardian that climate sceptics had exploited the misconception that there was doubt about climate change in order to push a political agenda. “It can be a way in for people who have an agenda that’s not scientific.


“You’re allowed to say, well I think we should do nothing. That’s a policy choice. But what you’re not allowed to do is to claim there’s a better estimate of the way that the climate will change, other than the one that comes out of the computer models. It’s nonsensical to say ‘we know better’, you can’t know better.”

He said the strategy of challenging the science of climate change was dangerous because it promoted the idea that science was political and up for debate. This weakens the position of science as a reliable basis for deciding how to respond to the world, he said.

“I always regret it when knowledge becomes controversial. It’s clearly a bad thing, for knowledge to be controversial. We can trace back through history the times when knowledge was considered to be controversial. And that’s what we are actually saying when we talk about climate change. We’re saying that there’s something inherently problematic with knowledge.

“Don’t undermine the science just because you don’t like the economics. That’s a dangerous slope, because the problem of course is you’re not undermining just that, you’re undermining the basis of rational decision-making in society.”


indeed.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:37 PM   #33
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indeed.
Can totally get behind that.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:04 PM   #34
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Should we wait and fully define terrorists threats before doing anything about them?

Just take an hour today and listen to Fox News, they will tell you that ISIS attack on NY, Canadian border, and the Mexican border are imminent, but say let's wait until we know EVERYTHING about climate change before doing anything.

Fear motivates, not saying it's right or wrong but everyone does it.




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That's not my point. It's moreso the fear tactic used when a proactive approach focusing on responsibility would work better, IMHO. And you can't compare the threat of possible terrorist attack to a gradual change.


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Old 09-03-2014, 07:06 PM   #35
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That's not my point. It's moreso the fear tactic used when a proactive approach focusing on responsibility would work better, IMHO. And you can't compare the threat of possible terrorist attack to a gradual change.


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Sure you can. You say it's gradual, but compared to what?

Maybe a year of ignoring a gradual rise in terrorism is like ignoring a decade of gradual change in climate?

I'm not saying fear is a useful tactic either way, but it works and all sides use it.

The problem is you and I could have all the evidence in the world and some would still deny it based on some hellbent defiance, a defiance based on nothing but fear and ignorance, because then they would have to start respecting science.


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Old 09-03-2014, 07:41 PM   #36
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I'm not so sure all the resistance against global warming is in defiance on science (that's a potential lyric). Some of the data supporting climate change as primarily of human cause bypassed the scientific method and wasn't an impartial analysis of all the data. And I'm sure the same could be said of the opposite position. If there was good data on either side it would give the discussion more clarity.

As for now, I just hope I won't end up paying even more taxes, and i will enjoy the 50mpg on my environmentally responsible clean diesel while I recycle and compost.


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Old 09-04-2014, 08:25 PM   #37
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"Even that is likely to be too high. The climate-research establishment has finally admitted openly what skeptic scientists have been saying for nearly a decade: Global warming has stopped since shortly before this century began."

Entire article (I know, from the comic section some will say)

http://online.wsj.com/articles/matt-...ing-1409872855
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:29 PM   #38
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If there was good data on either side it would give the discussion more clarity.
Except that there IS good data on "one side".
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:55 PM   #39
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"Even that is likely to be too high. The climate-research establishment has finally admitted openly what skeptic scientists have been saying for nearly a decade: Global warming has stopped since shortly before this century began."



Entire article (I know, from the comic section some will say)



http://online.wsj.com/articles/matt-...ing-1409872855

Have to be a member.

Isn't the whole website a comic site?


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Old 09-04-2014, 09:26 PM   #40
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Except that there IS good data on "one side".

That supposed good data had nasa emails that mentioned circumventing the scientific method in order to achieve said results. Not saying the opposite is true but it does make you wonder.




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Old 09-04-2014, 09:28 PM   #41
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Have to be a member.

Isn't the whole website a comic site?


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Not horrible. They use big words you have to sound out like the New York Times.



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Old 09-04-2014, 09:48 PM   #42
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That data came from scientist all over the globe, not just one group.

And I can't remember correctly, was that story about NASA? And I don't think the story was about the process more than the presenting.


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Old 09-04-2014, 10:23 PM   #43
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"They laughed at Joan of Arc, but she went right ahead and built it anyway."

~Gracie Allen

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Old 09-04-2014, 11:51 PM   #44
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That data came from scientist all over the globe, not just one group.

And I can't remember correctly, was that story about NASA? And I don't think the story was about the process more than the presenting.


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The story was regarding the nasa emails that were uncovered, stating data was manipulated to produce some of the results you speak of.

I personally don't deny the concept of climate change, I just don't think the effect of industrialized nations on an already natural process has been clearly defined, based on the studies and discussions I've had. But again, that's just me.


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Old 09-04-2014, 11:51 PM   #45
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"They laughed at Joan of Arc, but she went right ahead and built it anyway."



~Gracie Allen




Lol


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