German Ambassador - Ireland faces 'horrific consequences' if Treaty vote is No again - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-19-2009, 09:53 PM   #1
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German Ambassador - Ireland faces 'horrific consequences' if Treaty vote is No again

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Christian Pauls was reported to have told an audience gathered for the official launch of a partnership between Tralee and the Frankfurt- Höchst Schlossfest that Ireland would “throw away its future” if it voted No in a second referendum on the treaty.

Ireland could not have an a la carte approach to Europe and simply pick and choose what it liked, he said, according to local media reports of the event which took place on Monday.

The ambassador was also said to have noted that rural regions such as Kerry returned a much higher No vote than urban areas in last year’s referendum.

He reportedly made pointed references to those who “complain about other nations fishing in their waters. . . and forget who pays their milk subsidies”.

Informed of the reports yesterday, Mr Pauls told The Irish Times that while he could not recall using “those exact words”, he admitted that he had said “something along those lines” at the event.
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The ambassador rejected suggestions his remarks could be considered undiplomatic. “They are not. I am simply conveying what my government thinks. That is my job.”

Ok, we get it, you can vote any way you wish provided you vote the way we tell you.

I used to have a lot of time for Germany, but I have seen some worrying things being done and said by members of its political establishment of late. Things that might almost cause me to suspect Nick Ridley had a point with his infamous interview all those years ago. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichola...ble_quotations )
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:15 AM   #2
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He had described the proposed Economic and Monetary Union as "a German racket designed to take over the whole of Europe" and said that giving up sovereignty to Europe was as bad as giving it up to Adolf Hitler. The interview was illustrated with a cartoon depicting Ridley adding a Hitler moustache to a poster of the German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.
You mean this bullshit?

I don't agree with my current government either, especially on this issue. But I think it is extremely cheap to repeatedly come up with some Nazi allusions and this "The Germans are taking us over!!!1!eleven" crap.

And quite honestly. Are the other 26 members of the EU that weak that Germany is the dictator of the whole union? I seriously doubt that.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:39 PM   #3
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it seems that Pauls' main arguement is
"Ireland could not have an a la carte approach to Europe and simply pick and choose what it liked"
and that can hardly be denied
goes for every country really
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:23 PM   #4
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With recent decisions he would be better off criticising his home country's government regarding the a la carte approach.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:09 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Salome View Post
it seems that Pauls' main arguement is
"Ireland could not have an a la carte approach to Europe and simply pick and choose what it liked"
and that can hardly be denied
goes for every country really
In terms of the political structures, yes, I would agree, but what does Europe mean?

Does Europe include the French voters who voted no to the proposed EU constitution?

Does it include the Dutch voters who did likewise?

Does it include the Danish voters who voted no to the Maastricht Treaty?

Do you ever get the sense this project has become profoundly undemocratic?
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:23 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
You mean this bullshit?

I don't agree with my current government either, especially on this issue. But I think it is extremely cheap to repeatedly come up with some Nazi allusions and this "The Germans are taking us over!!!1!eleven" crap.
I agree that Nazi allusions are over the top.

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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
And quite honestly. Are the other 26 members of the EU that weak that Germany is the dictator of the whole union? I seriously doubt that.
Well, I am not really seeing it that way.

But why this centralising tendency that we have seen in recent years? It is not, of course, just coming from the German political establishment (if anything, Merkel, quite justifiably, is taking the approach of not giving way to bailouts for weaker Eurozone economies).

Is the intention to create a countervailing economic power to the US and China? If so, fair enough, but why is this not communicated better to the average citizen?
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:11 AM   #7
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I think it's not only over the top, after awhile it's getting extremely tiresome. This quote is 20 years old, but before and to this day anytime someone is upset about German politics all they can come up is to call us Nazis, referring to the Gestapo or SS or liken people to Hitler etc.

I think the EU has an overwhelming communications problem. Just look at the election in June. No one really gets what it's all about, if they even know about it in the first place. No one feels like he is seeing results from his decision. And if you take a look at who the parties are about to send to Brussels you easily get the impression this whole thing is worthless. After all, they are sending the people they don't need in their regional governments, who have done a poor job or who are simply unknown.
And only a few of these are able to then approach the public and communicate the idea of the EU effectively.
Just think of the whole issue of subsidies. Over 50 percent of the EU budget goes into agricultural subsidies, and they have not been able to lower that amount by even one percent. And they are not likely to do so in the coming years. I don't see how that is meant to make us so extremely competitive.
On most issue there is not one voice speaking. If we are lucky, there is groups. And the tendency is not towards one voice. Merkel is trying to do her thing, Sarkozy is trying to do his thing, Brown is a bit like a tennis ball, and the others do everything they can so as to not becoming obsolete in the whole system. I agree that Germany and France are strongly enforcing their will and using their respective powers, just as Blair was and Brown is pretending to do. And this certainly leads to decisions that are not in the best interest of the Union. But then I also have to blame the other 24/25 member states of not collectively stand against these powers.

I don't know how many people in the general public are aware of the goal of creating a countervailing economic power. I guess it's only a minority. When the EU does something, they are doing a poor job when it comes to telling its citizens why they do this or just have decided on that. I don't know why, but they are a little like a club of elites that decides and then says "Accept our will, but don't ask why". It's not generating trust, and leaves little wonder why the public votes No in every referendum. If the German public was allowed to vote we would say No as well. Rather ironically, and terribly sad, our politicians won't allow us to vote because we Germans can't be trusted with so much power. You know, Nazis and such.
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Old 03-21-2009, 05:39 PM   #8
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I assure you, the Maginot Line will not fail a second time. Got my eyes on you, Germania.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
I assure you, the Maginot Line will not fail a second time. Got my eyes on you, Germania.
ha. that's good posting right there, ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:34 PM   #10
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Why should we care for them?
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