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Old 11-09-2010, 06:22 PM   #16
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Not limited to, but it has been my experience they have been the ones that have been more verbal about such things. But I do think religion plays a role from the Amish to tribal people.

But purely from an American perspective it seems to have always been religious conservatives that have always tried to ban certain hair lengths for guys, tuxedos for girls, earrings for guys, etc at the school level.
Hmmm, well I guess I'm particularly surprised to hear a Southerner say that, because I know where I grew up, the rednecks would've been the group most likely to beat the piss out of you if you'd walked down the street wearing makeup and a 'feminine' hairstyle. And they were emphatically NOT religious types. They did/do tend to see themselves as guardians of social tradition in a sick kind of way, which is certainly something they share with the holy rollers, but in their case the impetus is not religion.

For similar reasons I'd question the idea that religion is what drives gender enforcement in actual, traditional tribal societies; I'd tend to see it as an extension of the larger imperative to maintain a coherent "We" (again, religion can become one instrument in this process--in fact, you could argue that's the whole reason why formalized religious practices, as opposed to beliefs, exist at all--but that's different from whether it causes the behavior).

Maybe I'm being pointlessly abstruse here...
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Well not only cross-dressing but I've heard them use if for the length of hair, product in hair, earrings, etc... Which never made sense to me because they could never point out the origins of such ideals of hair length etc in the scripture.
Okay, but then there is a religious reasoning as far as they're concerned, no? I mean, the only reason I asked is because it occurred to me that I personally never heard a Christian cite that particular passage before. So I was just wondering if maybe it's one of those passages that Christians disregard as a matter of course. Sounds like not.
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:53 PM   #17
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Hmmm, well I guess I'm particularly surprised to hear a Southerner say that, because I know where I grew up, the rednecks would've been the group most likely to beat the piss out of you if you'd walked down the street wearing makeup and a 'feminine' hairstyle.
Ah, interesting group to use, yes rednecks are an interesting exception most were "religious" yet drank, cursed up a storm, and wore the mullet.

And I should have been a little more specific earlier, I don't think the religious aspect is always explicit in nature but it did always seem linked somehow. But those that went above and beyond and actually tried to ban certain dress or style seemed to use religion explicitly(albeit poorly).


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Okay, but then there is a religious reasoning as far as they're concerned, no? I mean, the only reason I asked is because it occurred to me that I personally never heard a Christian cite that particular passage before. So I was just wondering if maybe it's one of those passages that Christians disregard as a matter of course. Sounds like not.
Ok, true they have a reason as far as they're concerned but they have a hard time explaining it once you ask them the origins of such ideals. Believe me I've actually had this discussion with adults, especially men and it always baffles me... but entertaining nonetheless to watch them get tongue tied.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:15 PM   #18
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I've heard them use if for the length of hair, product in hair, earrings, etc... Which never made sense to me because they could never point out the origins of such ideals of hair length etc in the scripture.
Then perhaps it's not that religion is the source of discrimination, but rather religion being used as a crutch for a more deeply-seated discrimination.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:22 PM   #19
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Then perhaps it's not that religion is the source of discrimination, but rather religion being used as a crutch for a more deeply-seated discrimination.
Nailed it!

I think this is true anytime religion has been used to discriminate; interracial marriage, homosexuals, women's role in society, against other religions etc etc...
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:34 PM   #20
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Nailed it!

I think this is true anytime religion has been used to discriminate; interracial marriage, homosexuals, women's role in society, against other religions etc etc...
Then perhaps it's not that religion is the problem of humanity, but rather that humanity is the problem of religion.

Reminds me of the Chesterton quote someone here uses as their sig: "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried."
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:46 PM   #21
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I agree, I never inferred that the problem was religion.

I think there's a reason why certain people are drawn to the more "fundamentalist" versions of religion.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:04 AM   #22
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As young children during the sixites My brother and I are less than two years apart in age. Both of us are heterosexual. We are married (not to each other) and have families. He played dolls with me, I played with his trucks. My mom didn't freak out. She thought it was completely normal for us to share our toys. Better than fighting and boping each other in the head.

There is nothing wrong with young children playing with what toys they want to. As long as they are not dangerous and could not hurt them or others. Most pre-schools have toys for both genders and the children are allowed to play with all of them. A boy isn't told it is wrong if he wants to play with a pair of high heels, the same with girls and trucks. More harm is done by ridiculing the child for their choices. Then just letting them be kids.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:12 AM   #23
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Slow news day much?
You think most people in this country would be perfectly comfortable with their boys wearing dresses and heels?

I think gender issues are still worth discussing. It's not "news" but it is an important issue-especially in light of the bullying problem. And of course the "gay issues". Brad and Angelina are just a symbolic example.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:05 PM   #24
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i think the bigger issue is why it's a national obsession how angeline jolie and brad pitt raise their kids.
yep.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:17 PM   #25
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This is so sad. It almost seems like society is moving backwards. When I was growing up in the '70s I ran around in jeans and sneakers and short hair and no one gave a crap whether I was sufficiently "girly."
I agree.

Same here, being a little kid during the sixties. Pixie hair cuts were considered cute for girls. Nothing masculine about it.

I ran around in sneakers, comfortable tee shirts and jeans, and no one ever thought. I was a boy.

This predicting, who and what your child is going to be when they reach full adulthood. At only four years old? Is insane.
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