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Old 05-05-2015, 06:12 AM   #31
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As much as people like to separate themselves from animals, we're not all that different, and some are much closer than others in their behavior.

Certain people (for the sake of precision, we'll call them "fuckheads") do what they want, when they want, simply because they want to do it, regardless of the consequences. But because they need a way to justify their fuckery and get along in society, they'll piggyback off of a religious ideology or well-meaning political movement/protest/riot. This weak attempt at deflection works on some, but most see through it and rightfully place the blame on the fuckhead responsible.

These two Islamic men were fuckheads.
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:21 AM   #32
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As much as people like to separate themselves from animals, we're not all that different, and some are much closer than others in their behavior.

Certain people (for the sake of precision, we'll call them "fuckheads") do what they want, when they want, simply because they want to do it, regardless of the consequences. But because they need a way to justify their fuckery and get along in society, they'll piggyback off of a religious ideology or well-meaning political movement/protest/riot. This weak attempt at deflection works on some, but most see through it and rightfully place the blame on the fuckhead responsible.

These two Islamic men were fuckheads.
If only it were that simple, that others would feel the same and agree. Online comments on some news articles indicate that many folks feel that these dudes were acting on behalf of Al Qaeda, that this is all a small step in Islam's takeover of the west, etc.

Off topic, but you are awake very late, I just saw your local time
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:11 AM   #33
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As much as people like to separate themselves from animals, we're not all that different, and some are much closer than others in their behavior.
Actually we are very different and I really hate when something like this happens and we are compared to animals.

Animals do not have foresight, do not premeditate violence, do not understand the concept of multigenerational revenge and their behaviour is driven by instinct. What this has to do with terrorism, human-on-human opportunistic violence etc is beyond me.
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:44 AM   #34
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GARLAND, Texas 2 gunmen killed outside Muhammad cartoon contest

Um, we are all biologically animals, you know.

Humans thinking they're different or distinct from every other animal on earth is what leads to things like religion claiming "dominion over the earth" and all kinds of various environmental abuses. When we segregate ourselves and see nature as "other" then we open ourselves up to abusing that "other" for our own benefit (which really isn't for our own long term benefit at all).

We are definitely no different from any other animal at all. We just happened to hit the evolutionary jackpot with our opposable thumbs, vocal cords and tongues and large brains. Lots of other animals are capable of reasoning, self awareness, learning, foresight, premeditated violence, abstract reasoning, and revenge across generations, just like lots of humans are incapable of many of those things.

Let's not put ourselves on a pedestal. We are just as much animals as skunks, elephants, and squid.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:05 PM   #35
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We are very different and distinct from every other animal on Earth and to deny that on the basis of it feeding the ego of religion is rather silly.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:30 PM   #36
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GARLAND, Texas 2 gunmen killed outside Muhammad cartoon contest

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to deny that on the basis of it feeding the ego of religion is rather silly.

That's not what I said at all.

Our cultural and social situations are very different from the various species of animals, of course that's easy to see but it results from historical factors. I'm talking about biologically. Homo sapiens is just another species of animal, natural selection (and the Cretaceous extinction event) just happened to give us a fantastic deal.
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Old 05-05-2015, 02:03 PM   #37
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We were raised by wolves...


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Old 05-05-2015, 03:38 PM   #38
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Let's not put ourselves on a pedestal. We are just as much animals as skunks, elephants, and squid.
I wasn't putting us on a pedestal.

It should be pretty clear that I think we are far worse.

And no, our brains do not work like that of even the lower primates, nevermind non-mammals.
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Old 05-05-2015, 03:46 PM   #39
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And no, our brains do not work like that of even the lower primates, nevermind non-mammals.

Obviously. I didn't say that, either.
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:01 PM   #40
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I managed to unwittingly derail this thread with a couple of sentences.

Not that it was going great before.
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Old 05-12-2015, 05:48 AM   #41
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Just as long as no one gets raped by wolves, we should be good.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:54 PM   #42
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Why not list the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, where 18% support the death penalty for leaving Islam, similar to Turkey's 17%? Also, the country with the third largest Muslim population in the world, India, is not listed anywhere.
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Quit being an Islamophobe and grouping a small percentage of extremist terrorists with the overwhelming majority of peaceful Muslims.

Almost 1/5 of the population is definitely not some "small percentage." While it may not be representative of the whole, that is a very large section of Muslims that believe in things that completely contradict basic human rights. And this is in more liberal, secular countries, which is most definitely not the norm in the Middle-East. Lets take into account the poll results from some of the other countries BEAL quoted.

Turkey:
Total Population: 77,695,904 Muslim Population: 99.8% -> 77,540,512 Those who believe in death to Apostates: 17% -> 13,181,887

Malaysia:
Pop: 28,334,000 Muslim: 60% -> 17,000,400 Death to Apostates: 62% -> 10,540,248

Afghanistan:
Pop: 31,108,077 Muslim: 99.7% -> 17,000,400 Death to Apostates: 79% -> 24,501,655

Egypt:
Pop: 84,314,000 Muslim: 90% -> 75,882,600 Death to Apostates: 86% -> 62,259,036

Jordan:
Pop: 6,508,887 Muslim: 92% -> 5,988,176 Death to Apostates: 82% -> 4,910,304

Lebanon:
Pop: 5,882,562 Muslim: 54% -> 3,176,583 Death to Apostates: 46% -> 1,461,228

Iraq:
Pop: 36,000,000 Muslim: 95% -> 34,200,000 Death to Apostates: 42% -> 14,364,000

Now if we add all those up, that's 131,218,35 out of a total Muslim population of around 244,800,000. That is not a small percentage. I don't know how many people were polled, (cite?) so that's probably a lot of extrapolating and not a completely accurate number. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that at least 100 million, close to half the Muslims in these countries hold the kind of beliefs that motivate Islamic terrorism across the globe, and that's a serious problem.

That's not Islamaphobia, that's a sad truth. Islam lacks any kind of modern reform, which it so desperately needs.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:51 AM   #43
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I'll present to you this counter-point:

So fucking what?

What difference does it make that x percentage of people in Malaysia think Islamic apostates should be put to death? You're not a Muslim apostate, this statistic affects you in precisely zero ways, so why are you walking around clutching at pearls over this? Why are you so scared of the Muslim world, 95% of whom (at least) don't really give a fuck either way about "apostates" to do a damn thing about it? I'm sure a large percentage of American Christians feel similarly, and that percentage would undoubtedly be much higher if Christianity was the official religion of the USA. However only a very tiny minority I'm sure would ever actually physically follow through on that thought, the majority either wouldn't care THAT much, at least not enough to actually put a system in place to kill apostates on a wide scale.

"But it only takes a couple of them to come over here and kill us" - you are far, FAR more likely to be hit by a bus on the way to work this morning than killed by a terrorist. Why be so terrified about something that has such an astronomical chance of actually happening to you? We didn't react with hysteria the first time a bus ran someone over, we put safety measures in place as much as possible, accepted that some people are going to get hurt from time to time and got on with our lives.

So again, I ask you, what difference does it make in your life that Mr and Mrs Mohammed and Ranjaya Sanjit and their son Kamal who live in the suburbs of Karachi think that Muslim apostates should be put to death, as why do you keep posting about it as if it's some grave threat to our existence that we in the west should be running scared from all the time?
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:09 PM   #44
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^

While that may be true, I am more concerned with the treatment of women in Islamic countries and the views of the majority of people there. We in the west have been an UTTER FAILURE when it comes to properly, loudly and consistently criticizing those societies on this particular issue. We, western progressives, get more upset by issues such as employers paying for birth control pills than the fact that women are still stoned to death for adultery, cannot drive, cannot vote, and have almost zero human rights to speak of.
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:11 PM   #45
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^

While that may be true, I am more concerned with the treatment of women in Islamic countries and the views of the majority of people there. We in the west have been an UTTER FAILURE when it comes to properly, loudly and consistently criticizing those societies on this particular issue. We, western progressives, get more upset by issues such as employers paying for birth control pills than the fact that women are still stoned to death for adultery, cannot drive, cannot vote, and have almost zero human rights to speak of.




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