Gaddafi 'may have fled Libya' as Tripoli burns

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This revolution is roiling the world financial markets.



I don't think Gaddafi can survive this, and I don't think he will hesitate to use any tactic to cling to power.

Look for a showdown in Tripoli.
 
BTW, Gaddafi and friends were responsible for the largest attack against Americans prior to 9/11. Further, western leaders decided to let that killer free in 2009 because he was suppose to die. Which he still hasn't.

I really wish they didn't do that.

I hear you. Gaddafi narrowly missed a US bomb that landed in his living room. :down:


Also, just read this; what Gaddafi said is causing the protests made me laugh. :lol: Well, until I read the new death toll estimate of 10,000. (which probably isn't quite accurate, but who knows)


Gadhafi forces strike back at Libya rebels


BENGHAZI, Libya – Army units and militiamen loyal to Moammar Gadhafi struck back against rebellious Libyans who have risen up in cities close to the capital Thursday, attacking a mosque where many were holding an anti-government sit-in and battling with others who had seized control of an airport. A doctor at the mosque said 10 people were killed.

Gadhafi accused al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden of being behind the uprising in Libya, in a rambling phone call to state TV. The Libyan leader said the more than week-long revolt has been carried out by young men hopped up on hallucinogenic pills given to them "in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe."

"Shame on you, people of Zawiya, control your children," he said, addressing residents of the city outside Tripoli where the mosque attack took place. "They are loyal to bin Laden," he said of those involved in the uprising. What do you have to do with bin Laden, people of Zawiya? They are exploiting young people ... I insist it is bin Laden."

The attacks Thursday aimed to push back a revolt that has moved closer to Gadhafi's bastion in the capital, Tripoli. Most of the eastern half of Libya has already broken away, and parts of Gadhafi's regime have frayed.

In the latest blow to the Libyan leader, a cousin who is one of his closest aides, Ahmed Gadhaf al-Dam, announced that he has defected to Egypt in protest against the regime's bloody crackdown against the uprising, denouncing what he called "grave violations to human rights and human and international laws."

In Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli, an army unit attacked the city' Souq Mosque, where regime opponents had been camped for days in a protest calling for Gadhafi's ouster, a witness said. The soldiers opened fire with automatic weapons and hit the mosque's minaret with fire from an anti-aircraft gun, he said. Some of the young men among the protesters, who were inside the mosque and in a nearby lot, had hunting rifles for protection.

A doctor at a field clinic set up at the mosque said he saw the bodies of 10 dead, shot in the head and chest, as well as arond 150 wounded.

The witness said that a day earlier an envoy from Gadhafi had come to the city and warned protesters, "Either leave or you will see a massacre." Zawiya is a key city near an oil port and refineries.

After Thursday's assault, thousands massed in Zawiya's main Martyrs Square by the mosque, shouting "leave, leave," in reference to Gadhafi, the witness said. "People came to send a clear message: We are not afraid of death or your bullets," he said.

The other attack came at a small airport outside Misrata, Libya's third largest city, where rebel residents claimed control Wednesday. Militiamen with rocket-propelled grenades and mortars barraged a line of them who were guarding the airport, some armed with automatic rifles and hunting rifles, said one of the rebels who was involved in the battle.

During the fighting, the airport's defenders seized an anti-aircraft gun used by the militias and turned it against them, he said.

A medical official at a military air base by the airport said two people were killed in the fighting — one from each side — and five were wounded. He said personnel at the base had sided with the Misrata uprising and had disabled fighter jets there to prevent them being used against rebellious populaces.

"Now Misrata is totally under control of the people, but we are worried because we squeezed between Sirte and Tripoli, which are strongholds of Gadhafi," he said. Sirte, a center for Gadhafi's tribes, lies to the southeast of Misrata.

The militias pulled back in the late morning. In Misrata, the local radio — controlled by the opposition like the rest of the city — called on residents to march to the airport to reinforce it, said a woman who lives in downtown Misrata.

In the afternoon, it appeared fighting erupted again, she said, reporting heavy booms from the direction of the airport on the edge of the city, located about 120 miles (200 kilometers) east of Tripoli.

The witnesses around Libya spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

Gadhafi's crackdown has so far helped him maintain control of Tripoli, a city that holds about a third of Libya's 6 million population. But the uprising has divided the country and threatened to push it toward civil war: In cities across the east, residents rose up and overwhelmed government buildings and army bases, joined in many cases by local army units that defected. In those cities, tribal leaders, residents and military officers have formed local administrations, passing out weapons looted from the security forces' arsenals.

The leader's cousin, Gadhaf al-Dam, is one of the most high level defections to hit the regime so far, after many ambassadors around the world, the justice minister and the interior minister all sided with the protesters.

Gadhaf al-Dam belonged to Gadhafi's inner circle, officially his liaison with Egypt, but he also served as Gadhafi's envoy to other world leaders and frequently appeared by his side.

In a statement issued in Cairo on Thursday, Gadhaf al-Dam said he had left Libya for Egypt "in protest and to show disagreement" with the crackdown.

Gadhafi's control now has been reduced to the northwest corner around Tripoli, the southwest deserts and parts of the center. The uprisings in Misrata, Zawiya and several small towns between the capital and Tunisian border have further whittled away at that bastion.

The Zawiya resident said that until Thursday's attack, Gadhafi opponents held total sway in the city after police fled days earlier. Residents had organized local watchgroups to protect government buildings and homes.

The capital, Tripoli, saw an outbreak of major protests against Gadhafi's rule earlier this week, met with attacks by militiamen that reportedly left dozens dead.

Pro-Gadhafi militiamen — a mix of Libyans and foreign mercenaries — have clamped down on the city since the Libyan leader went on state TV Tuesday night and called on his supporters to take back the streets. Residents say militiamen roam Tripoli's main avenues, firing the air, while neighborhood watch groups have barricaded side streets trying to keep the fighters out and protesters lay low.

At the same time, regular security forces have launched raids on homes around the city. A resident in the Ben Ashour neighborhood said a number of SUVs full of armed men swept into his district Wednesday night, broke into his neighbor's home and dragged out a family friend as women in the house screamed. He said other similar raids had taken place on Thursday in other districts.

"Now is the time of secret terror and secret arrests. They are going to go home to home and liquidate opponents that way, and impose his (Gadhafi's) control on Tripoli," said the witness.

Another Tripoli resident said armed militiamen had entered a hospital, searching for protesters among the injured. He said a friend's relative being treated there escaped only because doctors hid him.

International momentum has been building for action to punish Gadhafi's regime for the bloodshed.

President Barack Obama said the suffering in Libya "is outrageous and it is unacceptable," and he directed his administration to prepare a full range of options, including possible sanctions that could freeze the assets and ban travel to the U.S. by Libyan officials.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy raised the possibility of the European Union cutting off economic ties.

Another proposal gaining some traction was for the United Nations to declare a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent it using warplanes to hit protesters. U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said that if reports of such strikes are confirmed, "there's an immediate need for that level of protection."

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said estimates of some 1,000 people killed in the violence in Libya were "credible," although he stressed information about casualties was incomplete. The New York-based Human Rights Watch has put the death toll at nearly 300, according to a partial count.

Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam claimed Thursday that the reported death tolls have been exaggerated, although he didn't provide his own figure. In a press conference aired on state TV, he said the number killed by police and the army had been limited and "talking about hundreds and thousands (killed) is a joke."

He also said a committee had been formed to investigate alleged foreign involvement in the protests.

Earlier Thursday, Libyan TV showed Egyptian passports, CDs and cell phones purportedly belonging to detainees who had allegedly confessed to plotting "terrorist" operations against the Libyan people. Other footage showed a dozen men lying on the ground, with their faces down, blindfolded and handcuffed. Rifles and guns were laid out next to them.

____

Michael reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Sarah El Deeb and Bassem Mroue contributed to this report.
 
I've read Gaddafi is helicoptering in mercenary troops from Africa.

This revolution is gonna take a while.
 
Would it be crazy to suggest US military aid for the protesters? (Weapons, etc.) Or another bombing raid on his palace?
 
I think at this point the U.S. is best-served by evacuating Americans and other foreign nationals and supplying tons of help for all of the refugees.
 
Libya has no functioning civil society, no constitution, and no known alternative power base ready to step in. Hatred of Qaddafi would probably hold the rebels together as long as he's still around, but no one really has any idea what might happen after that; it's been a closed society for four decades, and the direction and extent of ties between the various tribal and clan groups are only dimly understood from outside. For foreign powers contemplating intervention, the uncertainty as to what might result is a huge concern.
 
What do you honestly think this would accomplish short run or long run?

I don't really know, I was just throwing it out there. He seems to be ordering most of the bloodshed though. If he was taken out wouldn't it be fair to say that much of it would stop?

EDIT: just read Yolland's post, never mind what I said haha
 
Would it be crazy to suggest US military aid for the protesters? (Weapons, etc.) Or another bombing raid on his palace?

I think the US has aptly and repeatedly demonstrated that they don't understand the Middle East.
 
Also, while I was critical of what I found to be the Obama Administration's weak and contradictory pronouncements during the uprising in Egypt, I'm not inclined to join in the criticism from some quarters in this case, because there are still hundreds of US (and other international) citizens and diplomats trapped in Tripoli. Coming down hard in a scenario like this, even with words alone, risks inviting retaliation against a large and vulnerable group of your own citizens.
 
I think the US has aptly and repeatedly demonstrated that they don't understand the Middle East.

Amen to that. There is a reason the middle East don't want to accept modernity (science, equal and unalienable rights, secular thought). The power shifts would be to great for them to handle. It seems that they are living the 'eternal re-created life' with no interference.
 
correct me if I am wrong

really?

correct-me-if-im-wrong-demotivational-poster-1250867131.jpg
 
Christian Science Monitor, Feb. 27
...Qaddafi’s writ now seems mostly confined to Tripoli and his hometown of Sirte. Between the two locations, he appears to have at least 10,000 heavily men under his command, and they’ve already shown a willingness to use heavy machine gunfire and anti-aircraft guns on lightly armed protesters.

Unlike in Egypt or Tunisia, two neighboring countries that drove out their dictators with relatively little bloodshed, Qaddafi’s Libya doesn’t have true functioning state institutions. While in those two countries a long-time ruling elite remains largely in control of state bureaucracies (angering many democracy protesters) when Qaddafi goes, there will be an enormous vacuum.

Libya’s constitution? Qaddafi’s own “Green Book,” a rambling screed about something called democratic socialism. Here in Benghazi and the rest of the east, the book--required reading for all schoolchildren--has already been pulled from the bookshelves and in most cases burned.

Today, a group of largely self-appointed leaders in eastern Libya tried to address that looming vacuum by declaring a symbolic transitional government. But the manner in which it was announced, and paucity of detail about it, are also indications of the challenges to come. On Saturday night, Mustafa Abd el-Jalil, Qaddafi’s former justice minister and the first government official to break with the regime when the uprising began, told Al Jazeera he would be named an interim prime minister of sorts. He was speaking from the eastern city of Al-Baida. His role, he said, would be to talk to foreign governments and provide a transitional head of state when Qaddafi falls. He insisted his post would be temporary and said elections would be held within three months of the fall of Tripoli. This morning, Libyans working with the transitional city council in Benghazi--which was declared in Libya's second-largest city last Friday--confirmed his comments were accurate. But then they backtracked, implying that it would all be sewn up by an afternoon press conference today. The press conference happened, but Jalil wasn’t there. Instead Abdelhafiz Ghogha, a lawyer who was arrested on Feb. 19 for supporting the uprising but who was released a few days later, said he had been named a spokesman for the Libyan “revolution,” and insisted there was no transitional government. It all left the impression of strong internal disagreements among the people seeking to emerge as the leaders of what has been an almost entirely headless revolt so far. “You have to patient with us,” says one official working with the Benghazi council. “There’s no history of this kind of political organizing here. There are people with different ideas, different opinions. But we’re finding compromise.”
libyah.jpg


Tahrir Square it's not, but how else does one rebel against Muammar Qaddafi.

It's a bit surprising how rapidly so many rebels were able to get their hands on weapons.
 
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Which one?

And why would that mean that's why it's spelled differently? I'm not just talking about typos or phonetic spellings by a 'layman,' it's spelled differently in the media too, right?

I swear back in the 80s when he was first in the news (that I was aware of), it was always spelled with a Q, but now I mostly see it with a G.
 
Muammar Qaddafi would be how you say it, Muammar Gaddafi would be how it's spelled in English.

I don't know exactly why, I don't speak Arabic nor do I write it. But I vaguely understand some terms, and I notice how it's said as opposed to how it's spelled.

FWIW I'm half Egyptian, so that's where that's coming from.

EDIT: Someone feel free to correct me, but I think it has something to do with the fact that the letter in Arabic doesn't have an exact translation to English, so it's substituted.
 
A 2009 article over at ABC counted 112 different spellings English media worldwide have used during the last decade. :doh:

When rendering into English text or speech from a language normally written in a non-Latin alphabet, translators use a standardized romanization system developed specifically for that language (this process is called 'transliteration' when done to text, 'transcription' when done to speech). Unfortunately, for almost all major languages written in non-Latin alphabets, there are multiple romanization systems in existence: one may be considered the simplest to use, another the most phonetically precise, yet another the most faithful in indicating the spelling in the original alphabet, etc. Arabic happens to have an exceptionally large number--I believe there are roughly a dozen Arabic romanization systems in regular use, though don't quote me on that. Also, to make things even more complicated, spoken Arabic varies tremendously across the Arabic-speaking world--some 'dialects' are mutually unintelligible--so, if you're transcribing as opposed to transliterating, you'll want to take that into account, too. (There is a standardized form, modern classical Arabic, which functions as a kind of lingua franca for TV, travel, etc. and is usually learnt in school. The now-famous Tahrir Square chant, "The people want the downfall of the regime," was in modern classical Arabic rather than colloquial Egyptian Arabic, which is partly why it's been embraced by protesters across the region.)

Of course, journalists don't have the time to mess around with all this, so generally they contact an expert to suggest a spelling (e.g., is it Chanukah, Hanukkah, or what? honest answer: either is "correct;" non-Hebrew speakers can't pronounce the initial guttural anyway, so why sweat it), or else, with stuff like personal or place names, they'll try to find out whether the individual or municipality in question has an official romanized form of their name they prefer. Unfortunately, Colonel Qaddafi/Gaddafi/Qadhdhafi/Khadaffy/WTF-ever has never indicated a preference--so all they can do is survey what's already out there in print, take their pick, and commit as an organization to that spelling for the time being.

cori, you're right though that 'Muammar Qaddafi' was far more dominant in US media in the 80s than any one spelling is nowadays. That's the main reason I use it--it's the first spelling I encountered, it's still in fairly wide use, and since I can't speak or read Arabic anyway, no point in pretending to have an actual informed opinion on it.
 
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I consult my Associated Press Style Book for questions like this. It didn't have an entry for Gadhafi (et al), but AP Style is mentioned in this article:

Newsmangled: Gadhafi a tyrant, no matter how you spell it - thestar.com

Newsmangled: Gadhafi a tyrant, no matter how you spell it
Published On Fri Feb 25 2011

This was a defining week for Moammar Gadhafi, the citizen-murdering, mercenary hiring, your-grandparent’s-drapes-wearing dictator of Libya. Gadhafi has ruled that country for more than four decades. Over the years, he has attracted media coverage for his support of terrorism, increasingly deranged public statements and sartorial flare.

As a result, you’d think at some point the press would have settled on the spelling of his name. Well, no such luck.

In the New York Times he is “Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.” The Los Angeles Times calls him “Moammar Kadafi.” This paper goes with “Moammar Gadhafi,” the spelling prescribed by the Canadian Press Stylebook. The Associated Press also loves it some Moammar Gadhafi, but Reuters and the BBC call him “Muammar Gaddafi.” To get a sense of just how many ways there are to spell Gadhafi, two years ago ABC News created a list of known spellings. It featured 112 different versions including, “Mulazim Awwal Mu’ammar Muhammad Abu Minyar al-Qadhafi.”

The issue is that there isn’t a standardized way to translate Arabic names into English. (Think Al Qaeda, al-Qa’ida etc.) It’s also worth noting that the haberdashtardly dictator himself hasn’t set upon a single translation, according to the Christian Science Monitor.

“The banner at the top of his official website spells it, ‘Al Gathafi,’” it reported. “But if you go deeper into the site, you’ll see it variously rendered as ‘Al Qaddafi,’ ‘Algathafi,’ and ‘Al-Gathafi.’ Adding to the multitude of spellings is the increasingly ironically named ‘Al-Gaddafi International Prize for Human Rights.’”

The question of how to spell the deranged oil tyrant’s name has long puzzled people. It was addressed back in 1986 by Cecil Adams in his know-it-all syndicated column, “The Straight Dope.” He noted the Libyan lunatic had that year personally responded to a letter from a group of second-graders in Minnesota. Underneath his signature was the typed name “Moammar El-Gadhafi.”

“This was the first known indication of his own feelings on the subject, and the wire services and many newspapers promptly announced they would switch,” said Adams.

Twenty-five years later, wire services like Associated Press and Reuters use different spellings, and we are no closer to clarity. In an effort to provide a more accurate rendering of el colonel’s name, the ShortFormBlog suggested, “The correct spelling is ‘long-serving dictator.’”

Let’s hope we can soon change that to “imprisoned former dictator.”

Craig Silverman is editor of RegretTheError.com and the author of Regret The Error: How Media Mistakes Pollute The Press and Imperil Free Speech

Russian and Mongolian have a similar problem. English gets stuck on translations due to not having any deep guttural sounds. G, "guh" seems to be as close as we get.
 
Is there any truth to the rumor that they revolted because Gaddafi tried to regulate their salt consumption?

:wink:
 
According to Gaddahfi, it's because of the drugs bin Laden's putting in their milk!



I think Gaddahfi and Charlie Sheen could be good friends. :wink:
 
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