Gaddafi 'may have fled Libya' as Tripoli burns - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-22-2011, 11:48 PM   #16
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:06 PM
Al Jazeera, Feb. 23 4:03 GMT
Quote:
Gaddafi, clad in brown robes and a turban, spoke on Tuesday evening from a podium set up in the entrance of a bombed-out building that appeared to be his Tripoli residence hit by US air raids in the 1980s and left unrepaired as a monument of defiance. "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents...I will die as a martyr at the end," he said..."I have not yet ordered the use of force, not yet ordered one bullet to be fired...when I do, everything will burn."

He called on supporters to take to the streets to attack protesters. "You men and women who love Gaddafi...get out of your homes and fill the streets," he said. "Leave your homes and attack them in their lairs...Starting tomorrow [Wednesday] the cordons will be lifted, go out and fight them."

...Shouting in the rambling speech, Gaddafi declared himself "a warrior" and proclaimed: "Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world". The Libyan leader alleged that all of those who were protesting against his rule were "drugged", and called on people to capture them and bring them "to justice", and not to back down from "cleans[ing] Libya house by house" unless the protesters surrendered.

...He blamed the uprising on Islamists who wanted to "create another Afghanistan", and warned that those in Bayda and Derna had already set up an Islamic Emirate that would reach Benghazi, the country's second largest city where hundreds have been reported dead in recent violence. He said that the country's youth was drugged and did not know anything; they were following the Islamists' leader and their leaders would be punished with death in accordance with the Libyan law.

Just hours after Gaddafi's speech, Libya's interior minister, General Abdul-Fatah Younis, announced his resignation and support for what he called the "February 17 revolution". In a video obtained by Al Jazeera, he was seen sitting on a desk reading a statement that also urged the Libyan army to join the people and their "legitimate demands".

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashedCarDriver View Post
The Americans (World Police) have expressed ambivalence to these movements for change in those countries because. 1. The countries of upheaval are all American allies. 2. There is no freedom in the middle east, but the Americans couldnt care less about them unless the political systems of those countries abide by them. 3. Israel - a state which is hated on the whole by all in the middle east is a major American ally, the key to keeping these leaders in power is to ensure that Israel can still exist.
Those factors are pertinent to Egypt and some other countries in the region, but they don't apply to Libya. Qaddafi is hardly a US ally; the UK, Russia and Italy have far more leverage (and $$$) in Tripoli than we do, though frankly in a situation like this that's not saying much.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 10:56 AM   #17
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 07:06 AM
Quote:
Gaddafi, clad in brown robes and a turban, spoke on Tuesday evening from a podium set up in the entrance of a bombed-out building that appeared to be his Tripoli residence hit by US air raids in the 1980s
Its too bad we missed him then.

Quote:
...Shouting in the rambling speech, Gaddafi declared himself "a warrior" and proclaimed: "Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world".
Reminds me of his speech at the UN


This is really amazing:

Clampdown in Libyan capital as protests close in - Yahoo! News

Quote:
Clampdown in Libyan capital as protests close in

TOBRUK, Libya – Militiamen loyal to Moammar Gadhafi clamped down in Tripoli, but cracks in his regime spread elsewhere across the nation, as the protest-fueled rebellion controlling much of eastern Libya claimed new gains closer to the capital. Two pilots let their warplane crash in the desert, parachuting to safety, rather than bomb an opposition-held city.

The opposition said it had taken over Misrata, which would be the largest city in the western half in the country to fall into its hands. Clashes broke out over the past two days in the town of Sabratha, west of the capital, where the army and militiamen were trying to put down protesters who overwhelmed security headquarters and government buildings, a news website close to the government reported.

Two air force pilots jumped from parachutes from their Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jet and let it crash, rather than carry out orders to bomb opposition-held Benghazi, Libya's second largest city, the website Quryna reported, citing an unidentified officer in the air force control room.

One of the pilots — identified by the report as Ali Omar Gadhafi — was from Gadhafi's tribe, the Gadhadhfa, said Farag al-Maghrabi, a local resident who saw the pilots and the wreckage of the jet, which crashed in a deserted area outside the key oil port of Breqa.

International outrage mounted after Gadhafi on Tuesday went on state TV and in a fist-pounding speech called on his supporters to take to the streets to fight protesters. Gadhafi's retaliation has already been the harshest in the Arab world to the wave of anti-government protests sweeping the Middle East.

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said estimates of some 1,000 people killed in the violence in Libya were "credible," although he stressed information about casualties was incomplete. The New York-based Human Rights Watch has put the death toll at nearly 300, according to a partial count.

Gadhafi's speech appeared to have brought out a heavy force of supporters and militiamen that largely prevented major protests in the capital Tuesday night or Wednesday. Through the night, gunfire was heard, said one woman who lives near downtown.

"Mercenaries are everywhere with weapons. You can't open a window or door. Snipers hunt people," she said. "We are under siege, at the mercy of a man who is not a Muslim."

During the day Wednesday, more gunfire was heard near Gadhafi's residence, but in many parts of the city of 2 million residents were venturing out to stores, some residents said. The government sent out text messages urging people to go back to their jobs, aiming to show that life was returning to normal. The residents spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation.

But Libya's upheaval, just over a week old, has shattered the hold of Gadhafi's regime across much of the country. Protesters claim to hold towns and cities along nearly the entire eastern half of the 1,000-mile Mediterranean coastline, from the Egyptian border. In parts, they have set up their own jury-rigged self-administrations.

At the Egyptian border, guards had fled, and local tribal elders have formed local committees to take their place. "Welcome to the new Libya," a graffiti spray-painted at the crossing proclaimed. Fawzy Ignashy, a former soldier, now in civilian clothes at the border, said that early in the protests, some commanders ordered troops to fire on protesters, but then tribal leaders stepped in and ordered them to stop.

"They did because they were from here. So the officers fled," he said.

A defense committee of local residents was even guarding one of Gadhafi's once highly secretive anti-aircraft missile bases outside the city of Tobruk. "This is the first time I've seen missiles like these up close," admitted Abdelsalam al-Gedani, one of the guards, dressed in an overcoat and carrying a Kalashnikov automatic rifle.

Protesters have claimed control all the way to the city of Ajdabiya, about 480 miles (800 kilometers) east of Tripoli, encroaching on the key oil fields around the Gulf of Sidra.

That has left Gadhafi's power centered around Tripoli, in the far west and parts of the country's center. But that appeared to be weakening in parts.

Protesters in Misrata were claiming victory after several days of fighting with Gadhafi loyalists in the city, about 120 miles (200 kilometers) east of Tripoli.

Residents were honking horns in celebration and raising the pre-Gadhafi flags of the Libyan monarchy, said Faraj al-Misrati, a local doctor. He said six people had been killed and 200 wounded in clashes that began Feb. 18 and eventually drove out pro-Gadhafi militiamen.

Residents had formed committees to clean the streets, protect the city and treat the injured, he said. "The solidarity among the people here is amazing, even the disabled are helping out."

An audio statement posted on the Internet was reportedly from armed forces officers in Misrata proclaiming "our total support" for the protesters.

New videos posted by Libya's opposition on Facebook also showed scores of anti-government protesters raising the flag from the pre-Gadhafi monarchy on a building in Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli. Another showed protesters lining up cement blocks and setting tires ablaze to fortify positions on a square inside the capital.

The footage couldn't be independently confirmed.

Further west, armed forces deployed in Sabratha, a town famed for nearby ancient Roman ruins, in a bid to regain control after protesters burned government buildings and police stations, the Quryna news website reported. It said clashes had erupted between soldiers and residents in the past nights and that residents were also reporting an influx of pro-Gadhafi militias that have led heaviest crackdown on protesters.

The opposition also claimed control in Zwara, about 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the Tunisian border in the west, after local army units sided with the protesters and police fled.

"The situation here is very secure, the people here have organized security committees, and there are people who have joined us from the army," said a 25-year-old unemployed university graduate in Zwara. "This man (Gadhafi) has reached the point that he's saying he will bring armies from African (to fight protesters). That means he is isolated," he said.

The division of the country — and defection of some army units to the protesters — raises the possibility the opposition could try an assault on the capital. On the Internet, there were calls by protesters for all policemen, armed forces and youth to march to Tripoli on Friday.

In his speech Tuesday night, Gadhafi defiantly vowed to fight to his "last drop of blood" and roared at supporters to strike back against Libyan protesters to defend his embattled regime.

"You men and women who love Gadhafi ... get out of your homes and fill the streets," Gadhafi said. "Leave your homes and attack them in their lairs."

Gadhafi appears to have lost the support of several tribes and his own diplomats, including Libya's ambassador in Washington, Ali Adjali, and deputy U.N. Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi.

The Libyan Embassy in Austria also condemned the use of "excessive violence against peaceful demonstrators" and said in a statement Wednesday that it was representing the Libyan people.

International alarm has risen over the crisis, which sent oil prices soaring to the highest level in more than two years on Tuesday and sparked a scramble by European and other countries to get their citizens out of the North African nation. The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting that ended with a statement condemning the crackdown, expressing "grave concern" and calling for an "immediate end to the violence" and steps to address the legitimate demands of the Libyan people.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy also pressed Wednesday for European Union sanctions against Libya's regime because of its violent crackdown on protesters, and raised the possibility of cutting all economic and business ties between the EU and the North African nation.

"The continuing brutal and bloody repression against the Libyan civilian population is revolting," Sarkozy said in a statement. "The international community cannot remain a spectator to these massive violations of human rights."

Italian news reports have said witnesses and hospital sources in Libya are estimating there are 1,000 dead in Tripoli, the Libyan capital, alone.

"We have no complete information about the number of people who have died," Frattini said in a speech to a Catholic organization in Rome ahead of a briefing in Parliament on Libya. "We believe that the estimates of about 1,000 are credible."

Libya is the biggest supplier of oil to Italy, which has extensive energy, construction and other business interests in the north African country and decades of strong ties.

Frattini said the Italian government is asking that the "horrible bloodshed" cease immediately.
__________________

__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 02:23 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 08:06 AM
I just spoke to a woman I work with who is originally from Egypt about what happened in her country and Libya. While she doesn't have many friends or family left in Egypt (those who are there are doing fine), she has friends in Libya and she's very worried about them. She said that Al-Jazeera reported today that over 1,000 have been killed. She is so stressed out over this.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 07:50 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 01:06 PM
LIBYA, AL ARABIYA REPORTS 10,000 DEAD - Lybia - ANSAMED.info

Quote:
(ANSAmed)- ROME - There are at least 10,000 dead and 50,000 wounded in Libya, according to reports by Al Arabiya on Twitter quoting a member of the International Criminal Court. The death toll was reportd by the Libyan member of the ICC, Sayed al Shanuka, who was interviewed from Paris. The official figures provided by the Libyan government yesterday indicated 300 dead, while this morning Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini stated that he believed more in the death of ''more than 1,000 innocents".

After last night's speech on television by Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, who stated that "I will resist until my death", tension emerged today in Libya while foreigners flee and power supplies to Europe are being shut down. The government still controls Tripoli, but has now lost Cyrenaica. This morning Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini mentioned ''civil war'' between ''death units and squads'' and accused Gaddafi of ''horrible bloodshed'', asking him to stop. Even the Italian government, which the opposition accused of not having spoken about Gaddafi's repression, is now attacking the Libyan leader.

Frattini added that, in its relations with Libya, in the past Italy ''did what it needed to do'', but ''there is a limit and in light of what is happening we cannot but make our voice heard". MALTA SOURCES, AISHA GADDAFI ON REJECTED AIRCRAFT - Aisha Gheddafi, daughter of the Libyan leader, was among the 14 people on board a Libyan airplane that was prevented from landing in Malta today. The report was made by sources close to the Maltese government.(ANSAmed).
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 07:57 PM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 07:06 AM
10,000 dead?!?!?!?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:13 PM   #21
Refugee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: die for you baby, DIVE for you baby!
Posts: 1,480
Local Time: 07:06 AM
I just want to pipe up and say that I don't really buy these revolutions in the Arab world. I don't see the people in power giving up what they have. The young taking power from the old? Yes. Democracy in the USA spreading to the Arab world no.

Someone please tell me the opposite and convince me that the world is changing in the Middle east.
__________________
canedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:18 PM   #22
Refugee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: die for you baby, DIVE for you baby!
Posts: 1,480
Local Time: 07:06 AM
BTW, Gaddafi and friends were responsible for the largest attack against Americans prior to 9/11. Further, western leaders decided to let that killer free in 2009 because he was suppose to die. Which he still hasn't.

I really wish they didn't do that.
__________________
canedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:38 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
10,000 dead?!?!?!?


I don't think any of them were Americans.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:57 PM   #24
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 01:06 PM
Democracy's had a bumpy road in lots of places (e.g., the rise to power of fascists in 20th-century Europe; the collapse of the French Revolution into Napoleon's empire; slavery and segregation in the US; etc.). Who knows how it might unfold and what the major obstacles will be in the Middle East. The colonial era was not kind to that part of the world, and encouraging the growth of democracy there since has hardly been a Western priority. Clearly some of those states are much closer to having an independent judiciary, free media, and functional civic institutions than others. Unfortunately, Libya is about as far as you could get from that, though that hardly means Qaddafi staying on would be a worthwhile exchange for "stability"--and it's kind of past that point now anyway.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 09:18 PM   #25
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 07:06 AM
Obama breaks silence, condemns Libya crackdown | Reuters
__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 10:49 PM   #26
Refugee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: die for you baby, DIVE for you baby!
Posts: 1,480
Local Time: 07:06 AM
Good point Yolland. I know tis may come to a surprise to many US members but I really don't think democracy is all its cracked up to be.

We could talk about political freedom till we are blue in the face but so many who are free have no economic choice. One of the arguments against democracy is that the lower rungs of a society have to be protected by manipulative elites.

I agree that it is 'a long road to freedom' but usually that road goes from the political to the economic. Though many in the US are politically free, economically they are slaves.
Their fates are determined by economics.
__________________
canedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 10:52 PM   #27
Refugee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: die for you baby, DIVE for you baby!
Posts: 1,480
Local Time: 07:06 AM
I also ask how much of Gaddafi's power is symbolic? How much 'hands on' is he in peoples every days lives.
__________________
canedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 10:54 PM   #28
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 06:06 AM
I honestly don't know what direction any of these countries will head in if and when they get all the people out of power that they currently despise. I do think, however, this is a decision that should be left to them, and not any other country, us included. I think we need to stay out of the business of government building for a while, if not permanently.

10,000 dead...my god. So horrible. Pearl, I feel for your friend, I can't begin to imagine how scary this must be for her. I hope that the people she knows in Libya will be all right.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 04:08 AM   #29
Blue Crack Supplier
 
coolian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton (No longer STD capital of NZ)
Posts: 42,920
Local Time: 01:06 AM
so ben ali was a crook, mubarak was a conceited autocratic asshole and gaddafi is a legit madman who has his forces crush heads in the street.....how did we ignore these guys for 40 years?
__________________
coolian2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 05:23 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
how did we ignore these guys for 40 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
so ben ali was a crook
Tunisia is of minor strategic value, so, whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
mubarak was a conceited autocratic asshole
Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
and gaddafi is a legit madman who has his forces crush heads in the street
Oil.
__________________

__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com