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Old 03-11-2009, 10:54 AM   #91
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We should collect all five sets and check the lyrics for the differences.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:57 AM   #92
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i have the digital deluxe version thing, and it says "Pentecost."
I just checked, and that's what it says..
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:03 AM   #93
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Maybe they printed those before they reworked the songs. That line, even to my non-native ears, is very clearly pain would stop.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:05 AM   #94
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What lyric sheet are you looking at? The CD I have has "pain would stop" in the printed lyrics for MOS . . . and it has "lamb as white as snow" for WAS.

EDIT: Just saw your last post. Interesting. I still don't think that means he meant to say "land" in WAS. It wouldn't make sense — "Who can forgive forgiveness where forgiveness is not?/Only the land as white as snow"???? You just have to face it — Bono's Christianity is in his lyrics. : )


the lyric sheet that i have from the Deluxe Edition i have that i downloaded from iTunes clearly says "Pentecost." it also does have "lamb" in WAS.

please, i don't have to "face" anything. i know it's written "lamb," i also know that it sounds like "land" and that "land" in part of it makes sense -- particularly if we're talking about snow, which, as you know, covers the land, not so much the lambs.

however, the broader point i was trying to make was not pleading some sort of atheist message or denial of whatever Bono's religion is, but the fact that discrepancies between the lyric sheet and what he actually sings is perhaps intentional, and the fact that both "lamb" and "land" make sense in the song, thus suggesting a connection between the two.

and even if it is the "lamb as white as snow" and "lamb = Jesus," the lamb is nowhere to be found in the actual geography of the song itself.

the soldier is dying, alone, and i think in resignation that the various searches in his life have resulted in nothing but longing -- "if only a heart could be as white as snow."
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:06 AM   #95
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Either line works. They just have different meanings.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #96
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Either line works. They just have different meanings.


do you think the words are intentionally presented as interchangeable? what does that suggest to you in terms of meaning?
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #97
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why would they do this? it seems intentional, so what kind of meaning is Bono trying to get at here, where "pain would stop" evidently equals "Pentecost"?
During the Pentecost, everyone that spoke different languages could understand each other. Does he mean that the "pain would stop" because everyone will join together as one in understanding? Every eye looking every other way would stop?
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:13 AM   #98
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the lyric sheet that i have from the Deluxe Edition i have that i downloaded from iTunes clearly says "Pentecost." it also does have "lamb" in WAS.

please, i don't have to "face" anything. i know it's written "lamb," i also know that it sounds like "land" and that "land" in part of it makes sense -- particularly if we're talking about snow, which, as you know, covers the land, not so much the lambs.

however, the broader point i was trying to make was not pleading some sort of atheist message or denial of whatever Bono's religion is, but the fact that discrepancies between the lyric sheet and what he actually sings is perhaps intentional, and the fact that both "lamb" and "land" make sense in the song, thus suggesting a connection between the two.

and even if it is the "lamb as white as snow" and "lamb = Jesus," the lamb is nowhere to be found in the actual geography of the song itself.

the soldier is dying, alone, and i think in resignation that the various searches in his life have resulted in nothing but longing -- "if only a heart could be as white as snow."
Well, it is interesting that you're really trying to squash any interpretation that focuses on God in any way. Which, is fine, you're entitled to that translation and opinion. It just doesn't jive with what we know about Bono and his faith. Yes, there can be multiple interpretations, but that doesn't mean there can't be one that's more right than the others.

And yes, the lamb isn't found in the geography of the song itself — that's why it stands out. And why would he be singing about a forgiving sheep in such a serious song?
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:13 AM   #99
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During the Pentecost, everyone that spoke different languages could understand each other. Does he mean that the "pain would stop" because everyone will join together as one in understanding? Every eye looking every other way would stop?





now that's really interesting ... could, perchance, a cell phone start speaking to you, as it does in the next song?
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #100
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do you think the words are intentionally presented as interchangeable? what does that suggest to you in terms of meaning?
Why do they have to be interchangeable? Maybe he just wanted the song to say something different than it originally did.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #101
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Well, it is interesting that you're really trying to squash any interpretation that focuses on God in any way. Which, is fine, you're entitled to that translation and opinion. It just doesn't jive with what we know about Bono and his faith. Yes, there can be multiple interpretations, but that doesn't mean there can't be one that's more right than the others.

And yes, the lamb isn't found in the geography of the song itself — that's why it stands out. And why would he be singing about a forgiving sheep in such a serious song?

but i'm not squashing an interpretation that focuses on God -- if you look, my interpretation focuses on God, but on the absence of God in this character's dying moments.

also, the "forgiveness" line is presented first as a question, which the character answers, but then where is the lamb? it's gone, absent. through all of his journeys, he never finds this "love divine," or the "lamb as white as snow."

and snow doesn't stay white for very long.

remember, Bono is writing in character. while his personal beliefs certainly inform every song, not every song is a declaration of his own personal faith.

i think that declaration comes in "Breathe."
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #102
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I agree. There's definitely a declaration in "Breathe." Still, even though he's using characters doesn't mean his faith can't get in there.

And I see where you're coming from more now on WAS. I think we just see it differently, which is great. Again, Bono's lyrics (and in this case Bono, Eno and Lanois' lyrics) allow us to do that. I see it more as the absence of God being due to the fact the character turned away from God, but he's wanting to get back to being right with him. Something a lot of people of faith who've fallen away feel near death. He talks about how he once knew the divine love, then he felt it didn't know him and then he talks about forgiveness and where it comes from – only the lamb as white as snow. This from someone who's face was as pale as dirty snow. The imagery/symbolism is well done here. That's just my view though.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:44 AM   #103
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as always, no right or wrong, just well-supported (or not-as-well-supported) arguments.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:45 AM   #104
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I agree. There's definitely a declaration in "Breathe." Still, even though he's using characters doesn't mean his faith can't get in there.


if find "Breathe" to be very Zen -- and that the message, i think, is that "grace" is found in the act of creation, for U2, that's "the sound."
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:17 PM   #105
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if find "Breathe" to be very Zen -- and that the message, i think, is that "grace" is found in the act of creation, for U2, that's "the sound."
I personally see it more as just Grace. Knowing he's forgiven, he can breathe. There's no guilt. No shame. He can live free from that as he's supposed to.

I love the line "Every day I die again, and again I'm reborn." Reminds me of what Bono said in "Bono In Conversation with Michka Assyas" about how he starts his day out with God and is reborn every day and it's something he takes very seriously. I love that book.
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